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are most headamps overpriced CMoy's? - Page 3

post #31 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slash47 View Post
Most people who put $1000 towards a single piece of kit know he's naked. He's just really hot, ok?

<snip>
Cool reply. Loved it !

Thanks !
post #32 of 111
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fkclo View Post
Am I missing anything here ? Looks like this is a statement (or accusation?) not very fair to other headphone amp designer and producers unless there are more substantiation.
that's just something I read on that board I quoted w/ the Hornet pics...was wondering whether it was true, coz I honestly don't see where the $370 are in the Hornet internals

sure, I could dig for more internal photos, and show them to you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luckyleo View Post
If your hope to protect newbies from wasting money (in your opinion), that's a valid and worthy objective. Don't be so emotional and evocative. State your point in a pleasant way and move on.
says who? what makes you think you can judge me exactly? I'm not paying you to be my shrink, kthxbie.

and Slash47 sounds mildly offended because he sells pimped PC internal soundcards for +$600...sorry for the collateral casualties!

anyway, I've got my answer...they're overpriced because the market ain't so big, and the market ain't so big because they're overpriced...makes perfect sense to me, we can lock this thread...thanks all
post #33 of 111
I really love my Headroom micro stack. My iBasso D10 almost gives me the same experience on the road. (it's not nearly as powerful)

So which one is over priced? My $700 HR stack or $270 iBasso. :shrug:
post #34 of 111
To be honest , the only significant difference i could hear is from the upgrade from superfi5 pro to ue11 and finally ue11/twag. The difference was heaven and earth. I tried the predator. Was there any difference in sound quality ? I'm not "wow" by it to be frank. Maybe my ears had reached the point of diminishing marginal return. It doesn't justify any further cost on that.

I believe for each and everyone , there will be a point where we will experience this point of diminishing marginal return. It is just a waste of money to invest further beyond this point.

And yeah , ampless portable setup ftw. I would spend more time/money/effort on home setup in future.

My 2 cents.
post #35 of 111
says who? what makes you think you can judge me exactly? I'm not paying you to be my shrink, kthxbie.

Maybe I should be! What's a piece of paper worth? Why pay more for advice from someone with a degree when we all use words to discuss the situation? Aren't all words, regardless of where they come from, more or less the same. All that degree stuff is advertising and fake reviews. Does it really cost Princeton more to give an education than a do-it-yourself cd? I don't think so. words be words my friend. That's all. Lets lock this thread up. Nothing more to say.
post #36 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by leeperry View Post
that's just something I read on that board I quoted w/ the Hornet pics...was wondering whether it was true, coz I honestly don't see where the $370 are in the Hornet internals

sure, I could dig for more internal photos, and show them to you.

says who? what makes you think you can judge me exactly? I'm not paying you to be my shrink, kthxbie.

and Slash47 sounds mildly offended because he sells pimped PC internal soundcards for +$600...sorry for the collateral casualties!

anyway, I've got my answer...they're overpriced because the market ain't so big, and the market ain't so big because they're overpriced...makes perfect sense to me, we can lock this thread...thanks all
Do you know how much money I made on pimped internal soundcards so far? Pretty darn close to zero. In the time it took me to make 'm I could've earned a lot more money. And I don't care because that's not why I do it. I like the way they sound and I think they're unique. But you probably think I'm just saying that to make some money, right?

I am offended because you claim I'm offended because it costs me money. I am offended because you seem to think I (or whoever else sells something that's expensive) do not care about quality, style, service, beauty and other things that matter but about making money in whatever way. That is deeply insulting. People should EARN money by adding value. That's it. If you're just out to cash in without adding anything anywhere, you should be ashamed of yourself.
post #37 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by leeperry View Post

and the only way to find out your "ideal" amp is either to play this game, or to buy a bunch of them w/ your own pocket money...and sell those that you didn't like, like a crack whore searching for a fix.
What a great definition of this hobby

And also applies to many others things like selection spouses, buying a car etc. And there is a much better selection when it comes to headphone amps compared with politicians - at least in where I live.
post #38 of 111
I agree that the selection process is painful because you cant just walk into a retailer and ask to listen to 5 headphone amps - at least I cant.

On the issue of parts cost, I think most of us have seen the parts breakdown for the iPhone - pennies on the dollar compared to the retail price. Granted, its a more complex device, but anyone who wants to make their own headphone amp has that choice - making your own iPhone might be a little tougher.

End of the day, its a niche market with most players hand-assembling everything in small batches for a demanding, tech savvy (mostly) group of customers with high expectations - ring a reputable automotive engine builder and ask him if he'll build you a new V8 for the cost of the parts and a couple of hours labour. Just make sure you are ready for the volume of his response.

Compared to other audio products, particularly cables, most headphone amps don't seem massively overpriced to me. I'd be thrilled if they all halved in price tomorrow, but I doubt that will happen anytime soon.
post #39 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by fkclo View Post
Sorry I have trouble following the logic.

The OP quoted the Hornet as one likely CMoy equivalent but then he put forward a hypothesis that "MOST" headphone amps are just CMoys.

Just can't follow the reasoning here. Obvioulsy the Hornet is just of the hundreds of headphone amps out there. Did someone actually examine all other headphone amps and come to similar conclusion ?

Am I missing anything here ? Looks like this is a statement (or accusation?) not very fair to other headphone amp designer and producers unless there are more substantiation.

Hope someone can enlighten me here.

F. Lo
seems like pretty reasonable thinking to me. if one "reputable" and loved company around these forums might be selling overpriced cmoys i don't see a problem with asking if this is the deal with most manufacturers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luckyleo View Post
Trolling? For a guy with all of your posts you must be doing be writing this to fill up some time. You actually sound insulted! Something is worth to you whatever you think it is. No one, no advertising, no review, no nothing can change that. No one is forcing anyone to buy an RSA, a Pico, or any amp, headphone, etc.

If your hope to protect newbies from wasting money (in your opinion), that's a valid and worthy objective. Don't be so emotional and evocative. State your point in a pleasant way and move on.
he's not trolling. i think it's a good thing he might be trying to protect new members from wasting money. seems like he described how it goes around here pretty much to the T. if you don't see anything that could potentially be wrong with that situation and your only response is "no ones forcing you to buy it" then i guess that's where we disagree.
post #40 of 111
Interesting thread, I found some old AKG K240 Monitors 600 ohms in a little instrument shop for 60 euros and man am I tempted. Problem is that a K240 needs power and a G93 will set me back 200 to 300 euros. I would happily pay up if I were informed satisfactory and helped with care.

Problem, why overstep myself in upgrading gear while I'm bound to a limited supply of money and can buy an old Philips CD690 with headphone out of which I'm sure will power many headphones up to a certain number of ohms? Could you compare a CD690 with a cMoy + advanced CD-player (for its time)?

All I know is this, if the sound does justice to your economic situation, ears and hart you're done for a while.

P.S. I'll skip on the K240 for as tempting as it is what I have now is satisfactory and I plan to upgrade slowly.
post #41 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by leeperry View Post
anyway the Hornet is said to sound amazing, and topped by the Pico by some ppl...which is $350. I find the RS prices really over the top, and their tech.support rather unfriendly...the complete opposite of Audio-GD, as previously stated.
You sound like you're new to hi-fi and only just discovered this. Never read a hi-fi magazine in your life? When you buy brand-name of any kind, you are paying for a shiny box. If you don't care about the shiny bit, you take your luck with something from China or DIY it yourself.

You might read that thread "I'm getting out of portable audio, it's too crazy" or whatever it was called and wonder about people dropping $1k or more on a portable rig, with multiple $100+ LODs and cables and whatnot. You're not the first person, by any means, to have a go at RSA and others over the costs, or, for that matter, call people crazy for buying this audio jewellery.
post #42 of 111
Thread Starter 
nope, I come from the pro-audio world...where you mostly get what you pay for

when you buy a Neumann U87 or a TLAudio tube preamp, you're well aware of where your money is...and the ROI will be audible in each and every second you'll be using them

anyway, I think we've nailed the issue so far...it's like pirates who say that $100 for a brand new game is way too much, and game publishers saying that piracy is too high so they have to sell them for $100.

recently a website said that they couldn't lower the price of their LOST web download episodes because piracy was too high....same story!

if the example I gave in the OP was half price, would he sell 50% more? would his netto mark up be higher due to bigger volumes? it's an economy of scale I guess, and it's essentially going way over my head

I remember buying an Akai S1000 sampler ages ago...it cost me an arm and a leg, and when I opened it to add some RAM expansions...the damn thing was pretty much empty, so I understood that I had paid for R&D ROI, brand name and make their share holders happy.
post #43 of 111
I'm not that knowledgeable about electronics, but a battery putting out pure DC seems like a quality PSU to me. I'm guessing how the voltage is derived will affect how stable the signal is ... ?
post #44 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by xcluded View Post
To be honest , the only significant difference i could hear is from the upgrade from superfi5 pro to ue11 and finally ue11/twag. The difference was heaven and earth. I tried the predator. Was there any difference in sound quality ? I'm not "wow" by it to be frank. Maybe my ears had reached the point of diminishing marginal return. It doesn't justify any further cost on that.

I believe for each and everyone , there will be a point where we will experience this point of diminishing marginal return. It is just a waste of money to invest further beyond this point.

And yeah , ampless portable setup ftw. I would spend more time/money/effort on home setup in future.

My 2 cents.
...
Gosh...
Same exact thinking... o.o

I don't know about you guys, but it seems like a "trend" about the peeps beside me, to go from mp3 > buds, into ipod > iem to ipod > amp > iem to imod > imod lod > amp > iem to imod > external caps > amp > iem, then back to ipod/pmp > customs, then start building their home rig LOL
Its a cycle. you try to tell a newbie to skip the entire thing and grab a nice pmp with customs is right, but the thing is, they themselves also don't know what they really like, although they can usually say some things that they like. So yeah, its an inevitable cycle for you to spend the money and gain that valuable experience.
post #45 of 111
Yes, especially most "new" portable amps.
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