Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Sound Science › Some Scientific Data on Isolation, Power, and Cables
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Some Scientific Data on Isolation, Power, and Cables - Page 7

post #91 of 97
2/10/10 at 9:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoTrack View Post
Thanks for your answers Steve. See comments below after asterisk.
Sure wish this place allowed nested quotes.

Quote:
What I believe is that to date no one has demonstrated conclusively that cables produce audible differences save for pathological cases of too much resistance, inductance and/or capacitance.

**I think EMI/RFI shielding is also important.
In some cases, sure. In many cases, I think it's overrated.

Quote:
And I believe that because well... to date no one has demonstrated conclusively that cables produce audible differences save for pathological cases of too much resistance, inductance and/or capacitance.

**How can you expect someone to buy your $650/1 meter cables (from Six Moons) if R, I, C are the only things that matter?
First, I never claimed that R, L and C are the only things that matter. I don't know that that's the case. What I said was that to date no one has conclusively demonstrated that anything other than mundane things as R, L, and C matter in terms of actual audible differences.

And it's true. So what would you have me do? Deny it?

Second, I don't expect anything from anyone.

Quote:
Certainly one can build a good cable for less?
Certainly.

Quote:
I'm going to provide cables. Period.

**Ok, I thought you said cables and electronics above.
Electronics are still in the works.

Quote:
The question is, which of those differences are sufficient enough to actually be audible.

**If cable differences are not audible why did you sell a $650 interconnect.
I didn't say they weren't audible. I said no one to date has shown them to be. And they haven't. Again, what would you have me do? Deny it?

Why do you persist with these non sequiturs?

Quote:
Why do so many audiophiles spend good money to upgrade if they make no difference?
Another non sequitur.

Quote:
I simply go with what sounds best to me, whatever the reason for it may be.

**This is odd coming from someone criticizing me over no DBTs for sound differences I hear.
I'm simply pointing out that your subjective perceptions do not, on their own, establish actual audible differences.

se
Reply
post #92 of 97
2/11/10 at 9:49pm
Thread Starter 
Here's a paper explaining, in scientific terms with graphs, the sonic differences in select cables:

http://www.audioxpress.com/reviews/media/704hansen.pdf
Reply
post #93 of 97
2/11/10 at 10:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoTrack View Post
Here's a paper explaining, in scientific terms with graphs, the sonic differences in select cables:

http://www.audioxpress.com/reviews/media/704hansen.pdf
They seem to have left out the part where they demonstrated that there were actual audible differences.

Unless I'm missing something, they just did some measurements, and then gave sighted, subjective evaluation.

This paper doesn't get us any further down the road than where we were 30 years ago.

As I said previously, I can show you differences all day long. What needs to be done is to show that those differences are sufficient to actually be audible.

se
Reply
post #94 of 97
2/12/10 at 12:19am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Koyaan I. Sqatsi View Post
As I said previously, I can show you differences all day long. What needs to be done is to show that those differences are sufficient to actually be audible.

se
Then we are wasting our time Steve as you know there are differences in sound quality (after all you sell $650 interconnects) but you won't accept there are differences until someone does a DBT.

I don't have the time or money to conduct a DBT and I'm fairly certain one that showed differences would not be accepted in any event. People's minds are made up.

Even a guy who sell the pricey cable!
Reply
post #95 of 97
2/12/10 at 3:51pm

back on topic

I converted the document to several pages of 1200dpi tiff images to compare the graphs closely. Fig 1 and Fig 3 are scaled identically , however Fig 2 the graph showing how bad CD players are without the add-ons is 6% larger on the vertcal axis, not the horizontal axis. So that the amplitude differences between Fig 1 and Fig 2 look bigger than they actually are. This is careless.
Reply
post #96 of 97
2/13/10 at 12:10pm
The mystery of cables is nothing in comparison to the unfathomable purpose of certain human discourse.
Reply
post #97 of 97
2/17/10 at 12:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Erik View Post
TwoTrack, what does a rational business do when it makes a technological advance?

Assuming, arguendo, that they just proved cables to "work" there are a lot of significant business implications that would come up.

First would be protecting the IP. It is extremely difficult to believe that corporate counsel, upon learning of the advance, would insist on engaging patent lawyers and taking all necessary steps to ensure that the discovery is protected.

If counsel fails to protect IP, they are liable for malpractice, which could involve losing enormous sums of money and possible suspension or disbarment from their profession. Further, corporate officers stand the risk of shareholder suits from failing to protect corporate interests.

Moreover, failing to protect an advance means that a competitor could use the IP and take market share or put you out of business.

So, do you think those are reason enough to protect an important discovery? If so, then why aren't these steps being taken?

Second, you would use a major breakthrough to develop new products. If Ford redesigns a valve for a 10% boost in efficiency, they will put it in every product. So, why hasn't the entire product line been revamped with this new technology?

Also, why haven't they admitted that their older designs don't comply with the new discovery and maybe offer a discount or free replacements to loyal customers? You'd think that the customers would be up in arms about this, wouldn't you?

Next, it would make sense to analyze the cables of the competition. Why not? You could demonstrate how their cables don't do anything while yours do. Doesn't that make business sense? Isn't that what every company does?

Oh, and since this great advance has been left unused, unprotected and not capitalized upon, then why hasn't another cable manufacturer picked up the methods and used them to beat the hell out of everyone else? There are hundreds of manufacturers, but none have done this. They're all out to maximize profits, right? Or at leas a few of them are, assuming the rest are charitable operations? Why hasn't someone run with this?

If this is a legitimate discovery, then these are remarkable coincidences. Fantastic and unbelieveable, even. When a business makes an advance, they protect and capitalize on it. That's plain rational behavior. What's going on here - regardless of the science - is freakishly irrational.

So either something really weird is going on or everyone in the business knows this is bullcrap.

Also, lies are peculiar beasts. They're calculated to look totally plausible and reasonable when considered in the context the lie presents itself.

However, lies become transparent and flimsy when you shift your perspective and start looking at the implications if the lie were true.

Here, they only want the presentation taken at face value and want the argument limited to the scope of the results. There's some gray area there and it can be argued to an inconclusive point.

But if you look at this in terms of what every business does when it makes an advance, then it falls apart. All the stuff they haven't done shows that they, themselves, don't take this seriously.

We shouldn't take this seriously, either.
Your absolute understanding of commerce, economics, politics and psychology appears, to a debatable extent, largely uncertified.
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Sound Science
Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Sound Science › Some Scientific Data on Isolation, Power, and Cables