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Review of the Oyaide DB-510 – An "analog sounding" digital cable - Page 6

post #76 of 147
Thank you Slim.a for your reponse,

Regarding the Apogee Wide Eye, you can find on the constructor webpage some technical information :
- Low capacitance for minimum pulse degradation
- Carefully controlled impedance accurately matches terminations
- Low dimensional discontinuities for consistent impedance
- Optimum dielectric -- foamed high-density polyethylene

It definitely looks as if they are addressing important issues when it comes to digital transmissions (no mention is done to the shielding though).

However, I am still concerned with the length issue, despite Dan Lavry's comments (and I am a very happy DA11 owner)... It was my understanding that impendance mismatch can generate reflections in the transmission, no matter the length of the cable, and are most often affecting the 1-1,5 meter range in digital cables (that can be calculated as well)... A shorter (50 cm or less) or longer length (2 meters or more) would help reduce greatly the issue. Call me stubborn, but the person who informed me was actually very knowledgeable about digital signals transmission and did a fantastic job with my SACD player

But I think I will give the Oyaide a try anyway based on your recommendations..

PD: in my case, plugging the laptop directly into the PS Audio power filter has brought very noticeable improvement
post #77 of 147
Slim.a thanks for your detailed review.
One technical aspect to ask, and I am very sure it was already discussed here, just want to reiterate.

I am using M2Tech hiFace, which outputs clear jitter free digital stream. On the receiver side I am using tubes based external DAC utilizing Burr Brown 1793 Advanced Segment Verification (jitter free) DAC chip which re-clocks the signal.

My question is, in this case should I still worry about the coax cable quality if the jitter in any case would be eliminated by the DAC chip and the cable by itself is only 1m length? I am currently using Belden 1694A by Blue Jeans Cable.
Or I am missing something here?
I would appreciate for any comments.
post #78 of 147
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by shamu144 View Post
Thank you Slim.a for your reponse,

Regarding the Apogee Wide Eye, you can find on the constructor webpage some technical information :
- Low capacitance for minimum pulse degradation
- Carefully controlled impedance accurately matches terminations
- Low dimensional discontinuities for consistent impedance
- Optimum dielectric -- foamed high-density polyethylene

It definitely looks as if they are addressing important issues when it comes to digital transmissions (no mention is done to the shielding though).

However, I am still concerned with the length issue, despite Dan Lavry's comments (and I am a very happy DA11 owner)... It was my understanding that impendance mismatch can generate reflections in the transmission, no matter the length of the cable, and are most often affecting the 1-1,5 meter range in digital cables (that can be calculated as well)... A shorter (50 cm or less) or longer length (2 meters or more) would help reduce greatly the issue. Call me stubborn, but the person who informed me was actually very knowledgeable about digital signals transmission and did a fantastic job with my SACD player

But I think I will give the Oyaide a try anyway based on your recommendations..

PD: in my case, plugging the laptop directly into the PS Audio power filter has brought very noticeable improvement
Thanks for the details on the the Apogee Wide Eye. Indeed, it seems to have addressed many issues. But the Oyaide has been constructed like a cost no object product, so hopefully since you are using a high quality transport and DAC, you should notice a positive improvement.

To be honest, that length issue still remains a little bit blurry for me. I didn't fully understand everything that Dan Lavry said, but I chose to believe him since he doesn't seem to have any agenda in telling people that shorter is better.
By the way, the Oyaide I am using is 1.3m and is better than shorter and longer cables from other brands... But still, it would be very intersting for me to test some day the same digital cable at different lengths... But that is for another time

We will be waiting for your impressions on the cable
post #79 of 147
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rokoko View Post
Slim.a thanks for your detailed review.
One technical aspect to ask, and I am very sure it was already discussed here, just want to reiterate.

I am using M2Tech hiFace, which outputs clear jitter free digital stream. On the receiver side I am using tubes based external DAC utilizing Burr Brown 1793 Advanced Segment Verification (jitter free) DAC chip which re-clocks the signal.

My question is, in this case should I still worry about the coax cable quality if the jitter in any case would be eliminated by the DAC chip and the cable by itself is only 1m length? I am currently using Belden 1694A by Blue Jeans Cable.
Or I am missing something here?
I would appreciate for any comments.
Hi Rokoko,

Thanks for the comments on the review.

Some technical aspects on jitter:

Here are some basics on jitter:

Just to be a little bit picky, there is no such thing as a jitter free transport or DAC. They all have some amount of jitter.

For the Hiface, it is a low jitter device/transport, but it is definitely not jitter free. Empirical Audio is going to release soon a usb to spdif converter based on the hiface. It will use some ultra-low jitter clocks, low noise power supply ... to reduce jitter but there will be no way to supress it entirely.

As for the DACs, if you look at most datasheets they all claim to have high jitter rejection or being jitter insensitive, ...
However, to the best of my knowledge, all DAC chips are affected by jitter.
According to some papers I read, 1 bit sigma-delta dac chips are the most affected by jitter, they are followed by multi-bit sigma delta chips, and the most jitter resistant are the R2R dac chips. It seems that the PCM1793 falls into the second category so it is probably affected by jitter as well(you just have to look to jitter measurements made by stereophile, I am sure you will find a DAC based on the same pc1793 that your dac uses).

Line transmission jitter

Regardless of the jitter of the transport, the digital cables will also generate jitter. Whether that is audible or not will depend on the ability of the DAC (digital receiver+PLLs+DAC chip) to reject jitter. It will also depend on how resolving the system is.
To give you an example, with the same front end (hiface+Oyaide+dac19mk3), I hear the difference between digital cables with the C2C headphone amp, but I hear almost nothing when I use the Little Dot mk3 and standards interconnects and heaphone cable.
So the audibility of the digital cable will depend not only on how good your digital section is at rejecting jitter but also on how transparent your analog section (amp/headphones) is.


All I can say is that in my system, the difference between the Belden and the Oyaide was pretty big. If you are pretty much satisfied with your system and want to hear a little bit more, you can definitely try the Oyaide. I hope that was helpful.
post #80 of 147
I've received my DR-510 1.3m yesterday (finally!).

After quick comparison with my Real Cable Premium RCA, I can say that the soundstage is larger, there are better and deeper bass, and clearly more details.
Plus the Real Cable isn't a very high end cable, it is however better than other cheap first price RCA cable that I have.
So the Oyaide is definitely a "huge" upgrade over a cheap cable.
post #81 of 147
Great news, enjoy it!
post #82 of 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pacha View Post
I've received my DR-510 1.3m yesterday (finally!).

After quick comparison with my Real Cable Premium RCA, I can say that the soundstage is larger, there are better and deeper bass, and clearly more details.
Plus the Real Cable isn't a very high end cable, it is however better than other cheap first price RCA cable that I have.
So the Oyaide is definitely a "huge" upgrade over a cheap cable.
If you are worried about jitter induced in the cable wouldn't a really short cable be better than a 1.3m cable?
post #83 of 147
slim.a, thanks for an encouraging answer, I will give a try to DR-510.
post #84 of 147
Great review ! Thank you.

The Stereovox is actually regarded by many as one of the best at its price range, frequently being compared against more expensive offerings. If it better the Stereovox must be something.
post #85 of 147
stereovox is great. i've recently switched to the xv2 from the cardas lightning 15.
post #86 of 147
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shark_Jump View Post
If you are worried about jitter induced in the cable wouldn't a really short cable be better than a 1.3m cable?
I don't know for Pacha, but personally, I needed a cable that was slightly longer than 1m.

As for jitter, a high performance (and properly constructed) 3m coaxial cable will have far less jitter than a poor .5m coxial cable.
post #87 of 147
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greeni View Post
Great review ! Thank you.

The Stereovox is actually regarded by many as one of the best at its price range, frequently being compared against more expensive offerings. If it better the Stereovox must be something.
Quote:
Originally Posted by endless402 View Post
stereovox is great. i've recently switched to the xv2 from the cardas lightning 15.
Absolutely, the Stereovox XV2 is also a very good cable (for the price). It completely walks over budget cables such Belden, Canare or Belkin.

However, I have tried in my system 3 coaxial cables that sounded more natural on the top end: Oyaide, Hifi Cables & Cie Sobek and Actinote Aria.

I have also had the opportunity to try the Stereovox XV2 against other cables in a friends house in the context of a highly resolving (and expensive) speaker system, and we reached the same conclusion about the naturalness of the Stereovox XV2.

On highly resolving systems, the Stereovox XV2 can sound a little bit on the lean side and can lack the refinement and natural timber of more expensive cables. However, I might have probably never noticed that if I didn't have better cables to compare to.

Since the Oyaide has a similar price to the XV2 and that the XV2 is highly regarded ... All that I can say is that the Oyaide represents a great value
post #88 of 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shark_Jump View Post
If you are worried about jitter induced in the cable wouldn't a really short cable be better than a 1.3m cable?
Quote:
Originally Posted by slim.a View Post
I don't know for Pacha, but personally, I needed a cable that was slightly longer than 1m.

As for jitter, a high performance (and properly constructed) 3m coaxial cable will have far less jitter than a poor .5m coxial cable.
I needed at least 1m too, I didn't want to introduce more jitter and pay more just for pleasure lol I'm no fool.
post #89 of 147
I have DB-510 and Stereovox atm (the version prior the XV2)

The differences I see are the layer in the soundstage, détails and the bass. Stereovox have the soundstage 3D and better details while DB-510 have a big fat bass but more 2D sound ...


I'll live with a bit to see if I would not change my mind.

I am pretty sure I will sell it to buy the new Stereovox Ultra ...
post #90 of 147
Great work slim - Have you or anyone else on here compared the cables you have reviewed with the nordost moonglo digital cable?

It is the one i currently have and I would be interested in upgrading it if one of your recommendations is an improvement.

Thanx
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