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Review of the Oyaide DB-510 – An "analog sounding" digital cable - Page 5

post #61 of 147
Last week I tried an 70cm RCA Oyaide 510 in my system (see sign).
Frankly I was disappointed; inspired by this tread I hoped for a better performance compared to my digiflex with ferrite cores (les then 1/5 of the price) but the 510 sounded sharper, loosing some warmth (with or without ferrite, didn't seem to make a difference unlike with t digiflex), and after a week i gave up and felt relieved reinstalling the digiflex and enjoy the sound restored to 'fullness' again.
This is not to say that the Oyaide is not a good cable; far from it, construction is impressive.
But cables are system dependent, and synergy is not always a matter of getting the best or most expensive.
post #62 of 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by dura View Post
This is not to say that the Oyaide is not a good cable; far from it, construction is impressive.
But cables are system dependent, and synergy is not always a matter of getting the best or most expensive.
Sorry to hear that, I fully agree with your comments.
Unfortunately unless you can borrow some parts you can never know until you buy it and try it out yourself.
post #63 of 147
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dura View Post
Last week I tried an 70cm RCA Oyaide 510 in my system (see sign).
Frankly I was disappointed; inspired by this tread I hoped for a better performance compared to my digiflex with ferrite cores (les then 1/5 of the price) but the 510 sounded sharper, loosing some warmth (with or without ferrite, didn't seem to make a difference unlike with t digiflex), and after a week i gave up and felt relieved reinstalling the digiflex and enjoy the sound restored to 'fullness' again.
This is not to say that the Oyaide is not a good cable; far from it, construction is impressive.
But cables are system dependent, and synergy is not always a matter of getting the best or most expensive.
Hi dura,

Sorry to hear that.

However, I believe that the culprit in this case is not the Oyaide cable. I have tested it with enough different transports and dacs to be confident that it is the least colored cable I have come across.
Like all transparent component & cables, it highlights the shortcomings of upstream components. My personal guess is that the Oyaide let you hear the real sound of the Squeezbox (you can read the following review here, in which a modified squeezbox is compared to other transports and the m2tech)

For example, the Belden cable and the Canare coaxial cables have both a distinct sonic signature even when used with different transports. The Oyaide (as well as the Sobek, Stereovox, Actinote) have less sonic signatures and let you hear the differences between different transports more easily.

In my opinion, cables should not be used to tweak the sound as all they can do is degrade it. Before trying the Artisan Silver Cables interconnects (and later the Oyaide), I used to try different cables to fine tune my system: For example, I used to use the Kimber PBJ with bright sources and the DH-Labs Silver Sonic BL1 with overly warm equipment. However, I realized that by doing so I was using fitlers that were hurting the low level details and quality of the sound.
To "fine tune" the system I discovered that getting a pure power supply (through power filters and power cords) as well as controlling the vibration (a proper rack/platform support/feet) play a big role in getting a good sound from any component.
After doing so (power filtration+vibration control+transparent cables), I can insert now pretty much any decent new component (dac or headphone amp) in my system and it sounds excellent. I have less to worry about "component matching".

Note : The ferrites should not be used in digital cables as it main purpose is to filter high frequency ... and the digital signal is composed of high frequency square waves. There are better ways to shield a digital cable as the ferrite usually result in a rounder shape of the square waves wich result in a "rounder" sound (sometimes) but it is not the most accurate sound.
post #64 of 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by slim.a View Post
To "fine tune" the system I discovered that getting a pure power supply (through power filters and power cords) as well as controlling the vibration (a proper rack/platform support/feet) play a big role in getting a good sound from any component.
slim.a, what is your setup for power cords and power filters? What would you recommand?
post #65 of 147
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pacha View Post
slim.a, what is your setup for power cords and power filters? What would you recommand?
I am currently using a Bada LB-5600 Power Filter Plant (along with the Hi-Fi Cables & Cie SimplePower power cord to connect it to the wall outlet).
I am also using the Essential Audio Tools Noise Eater Parallel Filter.
As for my DAC and heapdhone amp, I am using the Hi-Fi Cables & Cie PowertransPlus Power Cords.

The combination above has worked well for me but it is probably specific to the quality of the electricity where I live.
Also I was able to try the Hifi Cables power cords for a week before making my decision.
post #66 of 147
@slim.a thank you for your detailed answer, there are some valuable points in it.
I'm new to these digital interconnects, having had inegrated CDPs bfore I switched to the Squeezebox.
Very surprised there was an audible difference between digital interconnects, and the differences were what I would expect when going from copper to silver analogue IC's, coincidence?
Strange...
Anyway, You make a valuable point about the digital-out quality of the Squeezebox and I feel the Digiflex (Canare cable indeed) indeed seems to add some warmth, pleasant but perhaps not truthful, no doubt in a more resolving system the Oyaide would fare better.
As it stands now, the Digiflex is the best match in my system, but after future improvements I'll start experimenting with the cables again.
post #67 of 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by slim.a View Post
I am currently using a Bada LB-5600 Power Filter Plant (along with the Hi-Fi Cables & Cie SimplePower power cord to connect it to the wall outlet).
I am also using the Essential Audio Tools Noise Eater Parallel Filter.
As for my DAC and heapdhone amp, I am using the Hi-Fi Cables & Cie PowertransPlus Power Cords.

The combination above has worked well for me but it is probably specific to the quality of the electricity where I live.
Also I was able to try the Hifi Cables power cords for a week before making my decision.
Thank you again.
post #68 of 147
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dura View Post
@slim.a thank you for your detailed answer, there are some valuable points in it.
I'm new to these digital interconnects, having had inegrated CDPs bfore I switched to the Squeezebox.
Very surprised there was an audible difference between digital interconnects, and the differences were what I would expect when going from copper to silver analogue IC's, coincidence?
Strange...
Anyway, You make a valuable point about the digital-out quality of the Squeezebox and I feel the Digiflex (Canare cable indeed) indeed seems to add some warmth, pleasant but perhaps not truthful, no doubt in a more resolving system the Oyaide would fare better.
As it stands now, the Digiflex is the best match in my system, but after future improvements I'll start experimenting with the cables again.
Your experiment with the Oyaide is very valuable as I haven't stressed enough (in the review) the importance of the transport. I have considered the transparency and revealing nature of the Oyaide as a good thing but it is a good thing only with nice sounding transports.

By the way, the same effect can be expected from high quality pure silver interconnect. While they can sound fantastic on good equipment, they can sound awful when matched with bad components.

In my reviews, I have always tried to make a distinction between equipment/cables that are transparent/revealing (which is a good thing) and equipment that overemphasize some parts of the sound (which a bad thing).
When you use components/cables that are transparent throughout the chain, you should get very extended and details highs (on instruments that carry a lot of upper harmonic content) and at the same time you should have less sibilance than falsly bright equipment which doesn't reach as far in the frequency extremes. If you read for example my comparison between the copper based Equinox vs. the Artisan Silver Cable you will see that I have found the Artisan Silver Cable more extended on top and smoother at the same time. However, I noticed this quality only because both my DAC and my headphone amp use current amplification (Zero voltage feedback) which reduces the amount of perceived intermodulation and distortion (they have lower Transient Intermodulation Distortion or better time domain performance in other words).
Again when comparing both the voltage gain module (feedback) and the current gain module (zero feedback) on the audio-gd FUN, I was able to spot easily the subjective distortion in the module that used voltage feedback.

My guess is that pure silver cables are described as being bright because they only highlight some contents that were otherwise masked by the copper based cables.
However, in a high end and natural sounding system (low jitter, tubes and/or zero feedback, ...) the Silver based cables give a smoother, more detailed, and more lifelike representation in my opinion.
So of course, in your case, it makes totally sense to stick with the digiflex which gives you the best tonal balance. But if someone is trying to build a new front end, I think that it makes more sense to use a low jitter source (such as the hiface) + a highly resolving cable (such as the Oyaide) instead of using a jittery source and a warm sounding cable to cover the jitter (in my opinion of course).
post #69 of 147
I think we do need some warmth in our music. Ideally from transport to digital cable to DAC, they should be as detailed as possible. Warmth can be added at the preamp or amplification stage (e.g. tubes) and at the speaker/headphones stage. In this way, without coloration from transport to DAC, you can tweak the warmth at the downstreams. In other words, upstream should be clear (without bottlenecks) so that tweaking downstream can be effective. Of course, those are just my ideals; in practice, you can just do whatever that rocks.

Testing the 510 so far, I found all the above impressions similar to mine. The 510, being silver (they are considered low cost for silver cable), it conducts better than copper, minimizing loss of signal and maintains the timing integrity better (less jitter if you like). It should, like we experienced, convey details better.
post #70 of 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by slim.a View Post
Since you are using the Belden 1694A you should notice an improvement right away (without burn-in) especially on the low level details and frequency extension at the highs and lows.

On the soundstage it is a little bit trickier as the Belden 1694A has a big soundstage all the time, while the Oyaide has a more accurate soundstage that changes in size from one recording to another.
.......

In any case, let us know how you find the DR-510. And hopefully, since we are using the same DAC, there is a good chance that you will be pleased with the sound.
You are right that I noticed the differences straight away. So far, the DR-510 is not changing the sound signature by a bit. But it does give my music a sense of rootedness in truth by providing more focus and details. I refrain from giving detailed impressions which may change after I have used it for a longer period. May post some more impression another time. I was told by the shop that this cable is very fairly priced being a quality silver digital cable. Thanks again to Slim.a for the review!
post #71 of 147
I personally think is the best cable-connectors for the money.
post #72 of 147
Thank you Slim.a for pointing us toward this very nice digital cable and your impressive review.

I have just adopted the HiFace as well and really love it so far. Now, I was wondering if a better digital cable would improve things even further in my system (icing on the cake)...

I currently use an Apogee Wide Eye RCA digital cable, 3 meters (profesional and fairly well build) and I am very happy with it, nothing to complain about... The only other digital cable I tried in my system was a Supra Trico (1 meter RCA) and it was a very poor sounding cable (diffuse soundstage, metallic sounding with emphasis in highs, unnatural and colored)...

I am also a little worried the Oyaide only comes in short length, as it was my understanding that length - in theory - do matter (greater length help reducing reflections), though I have never done specific comparison fo that purpose, nor seen any review comparing different length of a same digital cable.

Thanks

PD: The HiFace performs best in my system when computer battery is completely removed (macbook) and plugged directly into my PS Audio Duet.
post #73 of 147
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by shamu144 View Post
Thank you Slim.a for pointing us toward this very nice digital cable and your impressive review.

I have just adopted the HiFace as well and really love it so far. Now, I was wondering if a better digital cable would improve things even further in my system (icing on the cake)...

I currently use an Apogee Wide Eye RCA digital cable, 3 meters (profesional and fairly well build) and I am very happy with it, nothing to complain about... The only other digital cable I tried in my system was a Supra Trico (1 meter RCA) and it was a very poor sounding cable (diffuse soundstage, metallic sounding with emphasis in highs, unnatural and colored)...

I am also a little worried the Oyaide only comes in short length, as it was my understanding that length - in theory - do matter (greater length help reducing reflections), though I have never done specific comparison fo that purpose, nor seen any review comparing different length of a same digital cable.

Thanks

PD: The HiFace performs best in my system when computer battery is completely removed (macbook) and plugged directly into my PS Audio Duet.
Thanks for your comments on the review.

I looked quickly at the Apogee Wide Eye RCA but couldn't find any specifications on the materials used (conductor, dielectric, shielding, ...) so I don't know how much an improvement the Oyaide could be.

As for the theory about length in digital cables, it is the opposite of what some people are saying on the forum. Shorter cables have less refelctions than longer cables. Dan Lavry posted several times on this thread (http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f7/usb...ml#post6157604 to correct that misconception.
So, in my opinion, you shouldn't worry about getting a short length cable.

By the way, thanks for the tip on the hiface. I have already tried to run my laptop from its battery, and I noticed a slighty improvement. I never thought to try the other way around (removing the battery and plugging it in a power filter). I will definitely try that

In any case, keep us updated if you decide to get the Oyaide, and let us know how it compares to the Apogee Wide Eye RCA digital cable.
post #74 of 147
Also as hiface is asynchronous you can use an ordinary USB extension cable so you can accommodate a shorter (cheaper) but good quality Coaxial interconnect.
What you can save from the Coaxial cable's length you can spend on it's quality.
The Oyaide won't disappoint.
post #75 of 147
very nice review, thank you!

anyone could possibly recommend a "digital sounding" analog cable please? that'd make for a very good shootoot IMHO.
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