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So whats the deal with crossovers in IEMs? - Page 2

post #16 of 32
1/29/10 at 6:27am
Thread Starter 
Oh right, maths fail.

Quote:
Originally Posted by b0dhi View Post
Multiple drivers handling different bands eliminates intermodulation distortion between each band.

Concise and straight to the point ty.
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post #17 of 32
1/29/10 at 6:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoupRKnowva View Post
Having two of the same driver, being pushed with the same voltage(in parallel) will double output energy. 3dB is a doubling in volume, hence a 3dB increase with two drivers over 1.
Did you mean to say a doubling of power = 3db? A doubling of volume is 10db.
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post #18 of 32
1/29/10 at 6:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by the search never ends View Post
Did you mean to say a doubling of power = 3db? A doubling of volume is 10db.
alas, that is what i meant, a doubling of SPL is 3dB...its been a long night at work.

Though wouldnt a doubling of volume be a subjective quanitity?

Edit: Just did some exploring on the subject, there would be no definitive number of dB related to a doubling of "volume" since volume is perception, the only thing we can talk about is SPL, which is 3dB to double. Also requireing double the power to produce. so in my earlier description, same voltage across two drivers, since they are in parallel the inpedance drops in half, providing double the current, so double the power with equal voltage.
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post #19 of 32
1/29/10 at 7:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoupRKnowva View Post
alas, that is what i meant, a doubling of SPL is 3dB...its been a long night at work.

Though wouldnt a doubling of volume be a subjective quanitity?
Well I won't argue that it may or may not be subjective, I was pretty sure you just typed it out wrong, however subjectivity aside, in scientific theory it's 10db.......it takes 10 time the power to = a 10db change, and like I said, from the way you wrote, i was pretty sure of what you meant. Percieved doubling of volume is 10db, in all honesty I could care less......I'm bored waiting for my wife to get off work, like you, I'm not thinking anywhere near peak which isn;t that good to begin with....
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post #20 of 32
1/29/10 at 7:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by the search never ends View Post
Well I won't argue that it may or may not be subjective, I was pretty sure you just typed it out wrong, however subjectivity aside, in scientific theory it's 10db.......it takes 10 time the power to = a 10db change, and like I said, from the way you wrote, i was pretty sure of what you meant. Percieved doubling of volume is 10db, in all honesty I could care less......I'm bored waiting for my wife to get off work, like you, I'm not thinking anywhere near peak which isn;t that good to begin with....
gettin a little OT here, but why would it be 10 times the power that would produce a doubling of percieved volume?
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post #21 of 32
1/29/10 at 7:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoupRKnowva View Post
gettin a little OT here, but why would it be 10 times the power that would produce a doubling of percieved volume?
Beacause 10 times the power increases the volume 10db. I can only tell you what I learned in college, they should have given me a brain with my degree......anyway, that's how it works, if you just do a quick think mathwise, it shold make sense.......double the power = 3 db, gotta double it agian for 3 more etc...
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post #22 of 32
1/29/10 at 7:20am
I hope that helped.. I may implode if I think anymore....lmao
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post #23 of 32
1/29/10 at 7:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by the search never ends View Post
Beacause 10 times the power increases the volume 10db. I can only tell you what I learned in college, they should have given me a brain with my degree......anyway, that's how it works, if you just do a quick think mathwise, it shold make sense.......double the power = 3 db, gotta double it agian for 3 more etc...
oh i get that 10 times the power is a 10dB increase in SPL, what im curious about is why did you pick that arbitrary value as a doubleing of percieved volume? why not 15 times the power, or 7..etc?
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post #24 of 32
1/29/10 at 7:34am
LOL. I didn't pick it, it is just what science says is a percieved doubling of volume, this is kind of funny, I am so tired.......it's basically all theory, like any fact, it can be proven or disproven....the only difference between opinion and fact. I can truly understand your questioning it, and how you construe it as subjective, however, all things science are tied to cold hard lines.....take for instance why is 4 the square root of 16? It is.....but why, who says so? Yet it just is. I hope i'm enlightening you as to I'm talking math/science, not able to lay claim yo knowing for a fact, that to you personally, or any one individual will percieve exactly 10db as a doubling of volume. In all honesty, I find myself constantly questioned about diagrams and wiring, power etc. In the end I often have to say, "look i'm the boss" do it, and it works. Sorry i'm not able to cnvey my thoughts better at the moment.
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post #25 of 32
1/29/10 at 7:36am
Quote:
Originally Posted by the search never ends View Post
LOL. I didn't pick it, it is just what science says is a percieved doubling of volume, this is kind of funny, I am so tired.......it's basically all theory, like any fact, it can be proven or disproven....the only difference between opinion and fact. I can truly understand your questioning it, and how you construe it as subjective, however, all things science are tied to cold hard lines.....take for instance why is 4 the square root of 16? It is.....but why, who says so? Yet it just is. I hope i'm enlightening you as to I'm talking math/science, not able to lay claim yo knowing for a fact, that to you personally, or any one individual will percieve exactly 10db as a doubling of volume. In all honesty, I find myself constantly questioned about diagrams and wiring, power etc. In the end I often have to say, "look i'm the boss" do it, and it works. Sorry i'm not able to cnvey my thoughts better at the moment.
Haha, alright, i went hunting through many a pages on wikipedia looking for the answer and couldnt find one, thats why i was curious where you got it from, though wikipedia didnt have an alternative either.
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post #26 of 32
1/29/10 at 7:41am
well heck if you just wanted to see it in writing here you go ....lmao

The Relationship of Voltage, Loudness, Power and Decibels
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post #27 of 32
1/29/10 at 7:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by the search never ends View Post
well heck if you just wanted to see it in writing here you go ....lmao

The Relationship of Voltage, Loudness, Power and Decibels
yeah i went and found it elsewhere as well. But in all of them its stated that its just with a large group of people, 10dB was the average value where people percieved it to be twice as loud. Its still all perception so were both right lol
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post #28 of 32
1/29/10 at 7:49am
I am laughing hard right now, I am remembering working in a power plant, and they made maintenance paint every pipe and couduit a certain color and arrow decals, so the big wigs could seemingly look at the stuff and understand what was going on, ever hear of absorption? It's a cooling system that uses steam to absorb heat, the free by-product of generation engines, I know in theory how it works, but can't explain it very well. at any rate, it was fun.
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post #29 of 32
1/29/10 at 7:53am
Well I surely wasn't trying to be right, only what I have learned to be considered broadly as a standard, that's why I said I have no argument in the subjective part. After all scientific facts are disproven every day......I may get a cat scan......just to make sure I actually am in posession of a brain. Edit....I'm not up for the let down
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post #30 of 32
2/11/10 at 8:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrGreen View Post
I agree, I'm exceptionally skeptical of multiple drivers (people discount headphones for similar things all the time).

Also he mentions "increased headroom and greater detail and accuracy". I don't even know where to start dissecting this. Greater detail and accuracy? If things were perfect, surely 5 drivers playing the same material as a single driver produces exactly the same detail as a driver of the same quality - which would ultimately cost significantly less.
that's where you're wrong. the whole point of having multiple armatures is so that you'll get a much flatter frequency response range. An armature designed for high frequencies will not be able to produce the lower range with sufficient SPL. tweeters are made of thinner and lighter material and aren't as good in producing low range frequencies. Same thing applies for woofers. one driver wouldn't be able to produce all the difference bands of the audible frequency spectrum, instead they'll have different peaks along the frequency bands. that means, you'll hear certain frequency bands at a higher SPL. and you'll have dips in SPL in other frequency bands too.
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