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HD800 imaging and treble: Why and how it can be improved upon ... - Page 2

post #16 of 24
Originally Posted by Tyll Hertsens View Post



I do a bunch of work on this subject, only to find this just before I publish.  Friggen outstanding work, Arnaud, OUTSTANDING!



I saw all those felt rings you had in your recent video and I was thinking I'd love to see something like that or like these here for sale, as easy to install kits.

post #17 of 24

I'll be posting instructions on how to make them yourself, Larry.  It's easy.

post #18 of 24
Originally Posted by Tyll Hertsens View Post

I'll be posting instructions on how to make them yourself, Larry.  It's easy.


post #19 of 24

I just gotta add my 2¢ worth here.


I grabbed some (relatively) large cell foam that was 5mm thick and modeled up a template to use to cut the foam into the appropriate pieces.  I used small pieces of double sided scotch tape and put it all together.

(NOTE: I reversed the placement of the triangulated piece so it doesn't cover over the SS mesh metal but does cover the mounting structure.  In other words the top of the T (of the triangulated foam) doesn't connect with the ring but the narrower 'base' does.)


I turned on the amp and started to listen.


HUGE improvement.  I stayed up till 3am listening to a wide variety of music I am VERY familiar with.  From old (relatively) poorly recorded music to new and some 'purist' recordings as well.


Before I could hear details and resolution and easily listen to the music.


After I could hear MORE details, MORE resolution, and effortlessly listen INTO the music.


Before I was hearing the notes and the voices (instruments) all playing together.


After I could hear each instrument, their harmonic structure, their 'character', AS the notes were played for each voice independent of the others.


In other words with the mod in place I could audible identify each voice for what it was. 

For example, a wood block (hard wood) AND the striker, a bass guitar string AND the body of the guitar that was being played, etc.


I could far more easily hear the rest of the audible information that provides the identity of each voice regardless of what ever else is being played at that moment in time.  This ability to isolate a particular voice among the rest of the voices and hear INTO it to identify it and how each was expressing itself (musically) is remarkable.


Now I am listening into and hearing the sources of the sounds not just the resultant sounds themselves.  Put another way, before I could hear the notes, the individual voices themselves.  Now I am hearing the richness of the instrument that creates the note along with the musicianship of the musician as he shapes and tailors each note as it is created.


In short I am not just listening to the music but instead I am immersed / sucked into, the entirety of the musical performance.  And yes with the added ability to be immersed within the music the heightened ability to hear the nuances and subtle cues make the experience all the more satisfying.


Yes, all of the warts and poorly audible aspects are even more appearant.  But you know what?  It doesn't matter near as much, because even these imperfections are fascinating in their own way because you can hear into them, hear much more clearly just what IS there, instead of it merely being a fuzzy annoying distraction.


This is a MUST DO mod.  And in Tyll's next InnerFidelity post he'll provide even more fun filled facts and some numbers and evidence to demonstrate what some of the effects this mod is having.



Edited by johnjen - 2/20/12 at 5:10pm
post #20 of 24

A very happy ending! or maybe this is just the beginning of a beautiful friendship.

I wonder if this ties in at all with our findings re: treble backwave reflections over in that ortho thread?

Anyway: Go Tyll go!

post #21 of 24
Thread Starter 

Tyll, you're the one doing an oustanding job here. Just saw your article and, as usual, you seem to have gone full throttle and do as thorough a hobas 

you possible could! I just can't conceive hiw quickly you turn these small r&d level projects around?! Thank you for this and in advance for all the great articles you have in mind this year!

post #22 of 24

Nice job, arnaud (and Tyll, for IF article) ...


Now ... for those of us that don't (yet) have the 800s (or 700s for that matter) ... and are still "stuck" with older models like 650s, K701 DT880, etc. ... how 'bout a similar treatment for THEM?


Not sure how far arnaud got his knowledge-discovery process -- e.g., software/hardware analysis of OP -- down to a repeatable, quick, 'one-size-fits all' routine?  But other (older/, less-high-end) cans probably need this type of help more than the relatively modern and 99%-stock(factory)-tweaked models such as Senn 800 (and similar, NEWER, high-end cans). 


Thanks again!

Edited by alphaman - 2/22/12 at 5:18pm
post #23 of 24
Thread Starter 

Alphaman, thanks! Actually, I should emphasize that my simulation effort only came after experimenting with the mod since I was trying to make some sense out of it. So, in other words, the mod was already pretty much established by the time I completed my simulation effort. It doesn't mean you couldn't use simulation to drive a design improvement, this is actually what people buy such software for and ask people like me to help with. But well, the truth is you can only go as far as you know the physical properties of your system or at least have sufficient test data to back out the properties. With headphone simulations, I always end up having to make more or less severe guesses on the various material properties (and geometry). Experience does help a lot but clearly isn't sufficient (you can see my simulation of sr009 headphone in my signature, I am still quite a bit far away from the real thing even though I have to say I didn't really investigate much where I could add some more physics).


Anyhow, the short answer is that such simulation effort does take a bit of time and requires some minimum amount of design and performance data so I couldn't quite commit to do this stuff on a routine basis. You're probably better off following some of the talented modders. If anything, you should start with a problem statement (several of us complained about the upper mids in the HD800). I don't remember such peculiar issue with the HD650 but more of a less resolving transducer overall / lacking of bite. If this goes back to fundamental flaws in the driver itself, there's probably not so much you can change. You could however certainly change the voicing in similar way as the HD800 mod though (for instance removing the liner in front of the driver will clearly boost the mid/highs). 

post #24 of 24
Quote: I may try to use some hard felt you place under the chair (at least for the ring part of the driver frame).


Hello Arnaud,


Did you try these hard felt? If yes, what was the result?

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