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NO Sound - iRiver H140 / iBasso D10 via optical - HELP! - Page 4

post #46 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by DDW View Post
Does the FM tuner still work with the Rockbox upgrade to the H140?
Yes, it does.
post #47 of 53
Thread Starter 
WOOHOO!!! Success!!!

Upgrading the firmware to V 1.66 fixed it.

Thanks John for helping with the firmware info, patch, and other help!!!!

Thanks a bunch also to all here for the time spent walking me through this and helping me troubleshoot for possible problems.


I was running out of ideas and getting frustrated. Getting this resolved sooner and not having to jump through a bunch more hoops - which in the end appear would have most likely been a "Goose Chase" and VERY nice to have avoided.
I am VERY glad jjcha suggested a possible firmware issue.
Nothing else made sense and it has been driving me crazy.


----------------------

I still have some learning to do to get familiar with the H140's goofy interface, but I probably won't spend too much time other than to use it for a while to make sure all is well while warranty is relevant. Then I will soon be seriously wanting to upgrade to Rockbox - this iRiver interface leaves a lot to be desired. ... From what I have read, Rockbox is the cure.


That aside, I have "FINALLY" been listening for a few minutes to the combo as best intended to listen to - and I am FINALLY getting to hear the advantages of this combo. WOW!!!!!!!!

Every time I have upgraded something significant to my portable system, I have noticed a significant jump in improvement. Each time prior, I kept thinking the next improvements just couldn't possibly make more than a tiny jump more.

This last jump from iPod with D10 amp to pure digital optical signal from H140 to the D10's DAC and Amp combined (finally) really was a NICE and SIGNIFICANT jump up in sound quality, detail, staging, etc.

It just blows me away how I keep hearing amazing awesome new things each time.

Getting spoiled like this causes ALL kinds of other problems: for starters, every other stereo I hear sucks now.

But, it is getting ridiculously late and need to head to bed......, but MAN!!!! - I can't take me earphones off.

................
post #48 of 53
I'm glad that you got it fixed! Enjoy your setup!

Quote:
Originally Posted by DDW View Post
I still have some learning to do to get familiar with the H140's goofy interface, but I probably won't spend too much time other than to use it for a while to make sure all is well while warranty is relevant. Then I will soon be seriously wanting to upgrade to Rockbox - this iRiver interface leaves a lot to be desired. ... From what I have read, Rockbox is the cure.
I encourage you to do that, rockbox is a terrific piece of software and easy to install and maintain with the rockbox utility.
post #49 of 53
congrats on a fully functioning unit!! it sure did read strangely this issue. but as you say the OG FW is really pretty crap, this problem is a good indicator. that the optical out would not work as standard with the standard FW is odd. RB takes it to another level, just install it and dont look back is my advice
post #50 of 53
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElEsido View Post
I'm glad that you got it fixed! Enjoy your setup!
Quote:
Originally Posted by qusp View Post
congrats on a fully functioning unit!!

Thanks guys. I am VERY glad to get it working finallly. From first sampling last night, I am pretty confident I will REALLY be enjoying this new setup for a while.


---------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by qusp View Post
..... it sure did read strangely this issue. but as you say the OG FW is really pretty crap, this problem is a good indicator. that the optical out would not work as standard with the standard FW is odd.
You are telling me. I would never have guessed that the firmware would prevent the optical signal from working. Especially as it connected immediately from the H140 to my Pioneer receiver. It is hard to imagine that it would work with one unit and not another due to firmware.

It was only after a bit of trial and error testing and process of elimination that narrowed it down to firmware vs. defective cable. I honestly was having a bit of a hard time comprehending what could possibly be wrong. I can conceive the possibility of a defective cable. But, what made it so hard to believe was how much leniency there was in the optical signal from the H140 with a Toslink cable being hand-held "Loosely" and even moved around to where almost completely out of the H140's port and still easily maintain a signal. That level of leniency and also being able to see what appeared to be such a strong and bright light signal out of the Sysconcept cable, just made it hard for me to believe the cable was likely at fault. However, prior to the firmware suggestion, I was running out of options to eliminate. So, once the firmware suggestion was made, I was very interested in persuing that option before trying to replace the optical cable.

I am SO VERY glade the firmware option was suggested.
It would have been a hassle and a couple weeks worth of waiting to try to replace the Sysconcept cable.... and I "think" it is safe to assume, all the hassle and wait would NOT have fixed the issue. - Which would have been VERY frustrating by that point.

Originally, in my mind, I would have viewed the optical cable just like plugging any any other wired cable - plug in and instant on.
But, at this point, I am "Guessing" (????) maybe there is some sort of encoding that is transmitted in the optical signal. Maybe some sort of signal that triggers on different optical receivers. And "Maybe" the H140 had encoding that worked with my Pioneer receiver, but not the D10 (?????????).
This is all very speculative on my part. I did a quick search on wiki and was unable to find any info to support this theory, but I don't know how else to explain why the D10 didn't work from the same signal that worked with a different optical receiver.

If there is such a signal, I find it pretty annoying that such a signal wouldn't be standardized. This industry along with so many others gets polluted and screwy with so many "differences" that would be well suited to be standardized.



--------------------------------------------


Quote:
Originally Posted by ElEsido View Post
I encourage you to do that, rockbox is a terrific piece of software and easy to install and maintain with the rockbox utility.

Quote:
Originally Posted by qusp View Post
...... RB takes it to another level, just install it and dont look back is my advice

Thanks for the "Extra" encouragement towards Rockbox, but I don't think I need anymore encouragement really at this point. I have read SO MANY posts with people Swearing by Rockbox as a HUGE improvement over most production interfaces. So, I have already made up my mind that I "Will" upgrade to Rockbox. It is really just a matter of when at this point.

I first wanted to make sure the unit worked while under warranty - which was a concern for the last 5 days or so. But, this firmware fix seems to currently strongly indicate the H140 to be working fine "IF" with the proper firmware version. So, I will probably just stick with that for at least a few days to continue to test for reliability of the unit. Currently, I am just under 40 days into a 90 day (refurbished) warranty from iRiver. I don't know of any reason why I would wait 50 days to upgrade to Rockbox. I actually don't use the rig daily, but maybe 3-4 times a week for about 1 hour intervals. I would think testing it for 2-3 weeks should be more than sufficient. I may not wait that long. But, also, for me, I generally just turn the player (DAP) on and off, hit play on shuffle and sometimes skip forward or back. I don't really mess around with functions and interface much once set up. Although, I LOVE the drag and drop options of this iRiver unit WAY more than iTunes. I have ALWAYS HATED iTunes and Thrilled to finally be done with it!!!

During DAP use, the MAIN thing I have to tweak constantly while listening with iem's is the volume. Different songs at different recording levels often need turned up or down in volume. There are a few songs that I dread (even fear) coming on as they BLAST my ears. It is almost like electrical shock. But, with the seperate amp, I can finally control that with a simple and more functional dial volume control that is easily accessible.
The iPod interface and screen (and honestly build quality) is nicer than the iRiver's - although no comparison in sound to the D10/H140 combo, the touch screen dial wheel thing volume control isn't as easy for me on the iPod in actual use. I typically carry portable in a case and have to unzip, reach in, figure out orientation of the unit and "lightly" touch and adjust = hassle. The D10 dial volume is readily accessible right at the top of the carry case. I just leave the case partially unzipped for headphone jack and volume access which I can easily control by feel without needing to look = WAY better.

In any event, I do have to fiddle with the interface on the DAP from time to time and the iRiver interface ultimately needs to be much better. So, Rockbox it will be. We'll see.



------------------------

While testing and waiting a short "few days" or so to upgrade to Rockbox, my more immediate upgrades and tweaks will likely be to customize my rig carry pouch and to modify improve the toggle button on the H140. I don't get good traction on the H140's toggle button for navigating and thinking about adding (gluing on) a rubber bump or maybe a thumbstud like on a folding knife to the toggle button to give the toggle more traction.

Is there an existing thread somewhere for mods to the H140's toggle button that I should go to. Or should I start a new thread on those other mods. I don't think the above new topics apply well to the general topic of this thread anymore and assume this thread is mostly done.


.
post #51 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by DDW View Post
Is there an existing thread somewhere for mods to the H140's toggle button that I should go to..... .
We're gonna get you irivering yet.....

Adding feet, improving joystick - MisticRiver :: For iriver Enthusiasts

An improvement I've learned since is to adhere the bumper with rubber cement (the kind we used in grade school). It holds great and is very easily rubbed off/removed if needed.
post #52 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by DDW View Post
I have ALWAYS HATED iTunes
Give Amarok a try. Wikipedia
post #53 of 53
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfen68 View Post
We're gonna get you irivering yet.....

Adding feet, improving joystick - MisticRiver :: For iriver Enthusiasts

An improvement I've learned since is to adhere the bumper with rubber cement (the kind we used in grade school). It holds great and is very easily rubbed off/removed if needed.


Cool.... Well based on my fiddling around and inability to control the toggle well on the H140, I am not surprised that many others have been looking for solutions for trying to improve the toggle's traction and control.

But, I thought I had come up with a couple of decent possibly "original" ideas I was going to share.... seems I am way behind the times on originality.

My first idea was the rubber bumpers as mentioned in the link you attached.
I had some rubber bumpers used for glass table tops, but they are a little weird shaped and pointy. So, I shaved the tip off and made it about the right shape and size (????). Here is what I had come up with so far:



It might be a bit lower profile than I prefer. I have not glued it on yet to see how well it might work, but it has a nice "Tack" that improves grip and control quite a bit.

When you say: "rubber cement", I am not sure exactly which glue you are referring to. Are you talking about contact cement? I had not thought of that, but I have some. If it holds well AND still has the ability to be scraped of if needed at a later time, that might be a very good thing.

I had considered using "Goop" if you are familiar with that glue. It holds to rubber pretty well. But, you are right that there are only a few types of glue that hold rubber very well.

The other option I considered was to use a spare "Thumb Stud" from a folding knife. (I also collect knives). Here is one I have (also not glued, just for consideration so far):



It offers PLENTY of traction and would work well for just bumping in any direction. Plus, it actually has a recessed crown that allows for center control when pressing in. But, it might be a bit tall.

It would be very easy to grind it down a bit. I have a bench-top belt grinder/sander. So, the following is a quick photoshop of what that might look like:



With the metal thumbstud, I could use a few different types of glue as metal to metal is much easier to glue together. Crazy glue, epoxy, Goop, and many other options would work. Ability to remove... that is another question.

Just ideas for now. I am not sure which I will go with or try first.

----------------------

The other thing I have been working on since I received my H140 and while waiting for the optical cable was a pouch to carry the combo rig - since for me, the idea was for portable rig use. I generally use my rig at the gym. I had been using just an iPod Classic for the last 3 years or so with my Shure SE530's and had always wanted to upgrade with an amp.... then that turned into replacing my iPod - which I only recently considered with the newer DAC/Amp combos, but I am very happy to be done with itunes. And even MORE happy with the sound quality improvements!!!!

The whole rig is a bit larger than I was originally targeting, but it is worth it for the sound.

I had been on Xin's Reference wait list for the last couple years or however long it has been. But, happy to have moved on from that.

Anway, I found a Case Logic Camera pouch that was about the right size.
Prior to receiving my optical cable, it fit VERY nicely. With the optical cable, it is a bit tighter than I thought it would be and would prefer, but I can still squeeze the whole rig in.




I cut a smaller hole at the top and while waiting for my optical cable, I added a small zipper to allow access for the earphones and volume without having to access through the LARGE zipper. I load the rig into the pouch through the large zipper, but it would be too prone to falling out with that zipper half open. In hind-sight, I would have done the added zipper a bit different, but it is functional.

This pouch has a front small pocket that I think will work GREAT for possibly cutting a small hole to access the H140's toggle. So, I can skip songs as I prefer more easily without having to unzip the large zipper. I could leave the small front pocket zipper open without any concerns of the rig falling out or being loose.



I haven't cut the hole out yet, but the toggle lines up ideally with where I could cut in the pocket:





This pouch also actually has a back pocket that perfectly fits my Blackberry 8900. You can barely see the back pocket zipper in the 1st pouch pic.
Carrying the Blackberry adds a lot of extra weight to an already dense pouch. I weighed my H140/D10 combo at 12.45 ounces (vs. only 5.45 ounces for my iPod Classic), but sometimes I need to have my phone handy and would rather not add multiple pouches to my carry belt while at the gym. Most people like a simple iPod shuffle or as small as possible. That is what my wife uses. She thinks I am strange for carrying a big pouch for music. But, she has never listened to even my Shure SE530's let alone my whole rig. Money has been tight lately and I think she is afraid to listen to my earphones and rig. She tends to be frugal and likes to view things as if good enough, why create more wants and ways to spend money. .... it can be good to have a frugal wife.


-------------------------

My other concern about the H140/D10 combo is that to carry it vertically (as ideal) in a pouch like above with headphone and volume control at the top, is that the optical cable is at the bottom.

I talked to Joseph about my concerns for the safety of the cable at the bottom of a rig like this. He felt it should be fine which is a testament from him about the durability of the cable (????).

Still, I am not comfortable with the combo sitting on the cable without extra protection.

The bottom of the Case Logic camera case is padded, but my concern is just the weight of both the H140 and D10 sitting on the cable.

So, I have been working on ideas for foam protection custom fitted around the bottom of the combo and better suited to keep weight and movement off of the optical cable.

This is still a work in progress as I have come up with some foam cutout that effectively take any weight off the cable, but they are 3 pieces of foam that I still need to glue together and shape into a single block. And I haven't come up with a great way to keep it attached (temporarily) to the combo while still being able to remove and re-attache quickly and easily as needed. For now, I will just stack the pieces on the bottom and sit the combo in the carry case. Gluing the 3 pieces together and shaping a bit will be an easy next step. But, I don't know about keeping the foam block attached and centered well yet (????)

Here is what I have so far:

3 cut pieces of foam:



1st foam layer around optical cable and other protrusions:



2nd layer:



3rd layer is barely notched out and seen here stacked from the side:




Once I glue the 3 layers together, I can shave the 3 pieces to look more like a single block (electric knives are very good at cutting foam )



Anyway, that is where I am for now....

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