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How good is DIY audio compared to what you can get in the stores?

post #1 of 119
1/20/10 at 8:11pm
Thread Starter 
Hi!

In general, how does DIY amps, dacs and other audio equipment compare to what you can get in the audio stores?

I recently built a CK2III, which I use with my HD650s, and I'm very happy with how it sounds. I spent -+ $200 on the parts, and that's not bad at all... So, how is that amp compared to a $200 amp from a well known audio manufacturer?

I'm just curious really. The HD650s and CK2III are the only good audio gear I've ever had. I haven't got the chance to listen to some good retail amps yet.

I'm going to build a DAC soon, DIY is just FUN
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post #2 of 119
1/20/10 at 8:25pm
figure a factor or 3 (at least) on the parts cost. every little penny 'overspent' on a resistor is 3x (or more) reflected in price.

if the vendor has a 'name' then add in a huge amount for marketing, packaging, glossies, sales events, you name it.

one-off diy's are worth their weight in gold if they are assembled with care. that's the big IF. but if that is met, no commercial gear can come close in value.

the sound is based on the design but the longevity is based on the builder and building skills (and to some extent, the parts quality you use).

pre-made stuff is usually not meant to last upwards of 10 yrs. at least in my experience, its mostly a 'throwaway world' now ;(

DIY stuff can be made to last upwards of 20 or even more years.

no doubt about it that DIY has the better return for the money IF you don't screw up the build
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post #3 of 119
1/20/10 at 8:48pm
linuxworks' post is a good one. I don't see anything in it to disagree with.

I would add that generally speaking (very generally), you can get more bells and whistles with commercial equipment - perhaps more snazzy looking cases and labeling (although DIY is doing better at that ), more features such as multiple inputs/outputs, etc. Although, you can get that from custom builders if it's important to you.

DIY tends to be pretty no-nonsense, no frills. Performance - or at least performance within a certain price point or other specific goals, is the primary focus with DIY.
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post #4 of 119
1/20/10 at 8:53pm
I think the factor of 3 is also from the restaurant business (chefs correct me if I'm wrong) so what you pay for that steak at a name brand restaurant is about 3x what it would cost to buy at a supermarket and cook it yourself.

I guess that means DIY food also wins (lol!)
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post #5 of 119
1/20/10 at 9:08pm
It depends on what you put into the amp, but I think DIY is a better value proposition across the board.

A $200 commercial amp not only has the cost of parts, but labor, overhead, utilities, taxes, and many other business costs rolled into it. Plus some profit, which is reasonable. If you want to make a profit off $200 in parts, you'll be lucky if you can cover costs for $500 or $600.

I also like that DIY designs are open and vetted by a lot of people. If something is wrong or can be improved, someone usually notices and suggests a fix or tweak. Because of that, DIY amps probably have many more hours of development into them than commercial amps do.

I also like that DIY designs are more experimental and cutting edge. You'll find tubes and circuits that might be too unusual for commercial success, but nevertheless sound good and give great performance.

At the highest end, DIY is unquestionably the best. You can build things that are absolutely not commercially viable. Some designs I've seen would have to be sold at $10,000 or more just to break even and there's not much market for amps that expensive.

This is not to say that commercial amps are bad. There are a lot of good ones out there and some are priced fairly considering the parts and labor. But if you can build your own, you can have the best possible at good prices.
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post #6 of 119
1/20/10 at 10:10pm
This makes my mouth water LOL. I really need to get into DIY more.
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post #7 of 119
1/20/10 at 10:27pm
It depends if you include your time in the costs.
I diy for a hobby, so I don't consider my time. Plus I am on salary, so I make the same no matter what.

But, if you could work overtime instead of diying, the costs will come out much closer.

Randy
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post #8 of 119
1/20/10 at 10:37pm
Very true, Randy. I find DIY to be more of an escape than a money saver. After long hours in the office it is great to work on something. It usually requires complete attention, so you forget about whatever was stressing you out. The builds are like complex jigsaw puzzles but you get something to listen to afterwards.

Also forgot to mention that the OP should look at DIY speakers. Same value proposition and some incredible designs, too.
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post #9 of 119
1/20/10 at 10:39pm
But most people enjoy DIY, so I wouldn't put a price on that time spent having fun.
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post #10 of 119
1/20/10 at 11:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by randytsuch View Post
It depends if you include your time in the costs.
I diy for a hobby, so I don't consider my time. Plus I am on salary, so I make the same no matter what.

But, if you could work overtime instead of diying, the costs will come out much closer.
I'm in the same boat. If you enjoy building DIY projects, it's a huge boon to the cost:benefit ratio.
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post #11 of 119
1/21/10 at 1:22am
Thread Starter 
Interesting, I didn't realize that taxes, marketing costs, packaging etc. are such a huge percentage of the product's price. So if you are looking at the price/performance ratio, DIY can be much better if you put in some effort in it.

I have to agree with you guys, the costs is not the main reason I wanted to go DIY this time. It was a whole lot of fun building the amp, I'm definitely going into more DIY. One Saturday night I was working on the amp, suddenly I found out that it was 5:30 in the morning!

Uncle Erik; I saw you mentioned DIY speakers. That is actually a good idea! What is a good source for finding information about that?
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post #12 of 119
1/21/10 at 1:35am
i get more satisfaction out of listening to something i built rather than bought off the shelf or online store plus i know i did a great/best job i could do.
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post #13 of 119
1/21/10 at 1:48am
Are we talking just headphone amps? Headphone amps kinda don't follow conventional rules when it comes to value for DIY vs commercial. If we're talking mainstream audio stuff, we have a long history of great value products; one can pick up really nice vintage items if one knows what to look for.
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post #14 of 119
1/21/10 at 1:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by atothex View Post
Are we talking just headphone amps? Headphone amps kinda don't follow conventional rules when it comes to value for DIY vs commercial. If we're talking mainstream audio stuff, we have a long history of great value products; one can pick up really nice vintage items if one knows what to look for.
I bought a Denon AVR-3805 on craigslist for $100. I'd like to see a DIY device that does what it does for the same price in parts.
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post #15 of 119
1/21/10 at 1:56am
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/wha...arable-467464/

kind of related to the OP.
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