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Is the HD800 overpriced? - Page 22

post #316 of 684
Quote:
Originally Posted by grokit View Post

HD850 should run about US $1800.



Do you have a link? The only link that I fund is this one: http://www.gearslutz.com/board/electronic-music-instruments-electronic-music-production/404819-sennheiser-hd800.html


Edited by Acix - 12/5/11 at 3:25am
post #317 of 684

 

Quote:

Yes, I think the hps on this list are overpriced...

 

1. Grado GS1000.

2. Sennheiser HD-800.

3. Beyerdynamic T1.

4. Audez'e LDC 2/3.

5. Most of the Stax models are overpriced. Maybe the price is a direct result of the Japanese market, but this still is not a good excused.

 

 

In the near future those companies will bring a newer models that will be even more overpriced ...and the LDC 3 is the first example of what we going to get. wink.gif

 

These headphones are expensive but not overpriced imo, not all.

 

PS1000 is "maybe" overpriced, not GS1000, imo

HD800, "maybe" a little overpriced, actually in US, not Europe. (900-1200 euros)

T1, In Europe, price of these babies are good (800-850 €)

LC2 not, LC3 "maybe" yes imo.

Stax, never tried a stax, i can't answer.

 

Considering the reviews ED10 is "perhaps" the most overpriced, but i'm not sure at all.

 

 

post #318 of 684

I don't think they are when I compare them to other high end headphones I have used (LCD2, PS1000, RS1).

 

The value of any good is defined by how much people are willing to pay, not by the cost of the components or R&D needed to make them. this is doubly true for these luxury headphones costing hundreds upon hundreds of dollars

 

If the HD800 is selling to Senn's expectations, then it's not overpriced.

 

Now, on a personal level and based purely on my enjoyment alone, I'd say the LCD2 are "overpriced" at 1000. Ditto with the PS1000's MSRP of 1700 (I paid 1400 for them so it puts them on around the same level as the HD800).

 

But if those headphones sell according to manufacturer expectations, then they're not overpriced. They're not intended to be mass market items so expectations are always for low unit sales.

 

As for individual assessments of what is overpriced for them, the questions is typically "can you get better - or the same - sound for less?" if so, then you may think something was overpriced.

post #319 of 684

so hifiman's flagship is the only flagship model that is not overpriced in your opinion?

 

anyway, i think HP is a hobby of diminishing return, so there is nothing overpriced, as long as the SQ is increased

post #320 of 684
Quote:
Originally Posted by DVDRey View Post

 

 

These headphones are expensive but not overpriced imo, not all.

 

PS1000 is "maybe" overpriced, not GS1000, imo

HD800, "maybe" a little overpriced, actually in US, not Europe. (900-1200 euros)

T1, In Europe, price of these babies are good (800-850 €)

LC2 not, LC3 "maybe" yes imo.

Stax, never tried a stax, i can't answer.

 

Considering the reviews ED10 is "perhaps" the most overpriced, but i'm not sure at all.

 

 




I think over $700 is overpriced... and of course who can forget the ED10 that is a great example of what overpriced is about.

post #321 of 684

Sorry to bump but I love this conversation about pricing... I read that the 800s were meant to be a $600 - $800 set just above the 650, then they decided to try marketing it as being unbelievable and succeeded.  It competes directly with $1000 cans and is not in a class of it's own at $500 more from what I've read.  If you like the sound then it's justifiable but I hate the way Sennheiser is losing touch with its roots.  The 800 is the only set made in Germany and now with the enforced MAP it's ridiculous.  People are starting to leave beats and so forth for better cans and the first thing they come across is Sennheiser as the luxury brand of choice because of their marketing, and if people will pay 500 for beats, why not Senns.  Also once they see Senns are better they'll send over $500 no problem.  Not to mention the hd700 is being delayed because it is being reworked so that it won't compete with the 800.  Even with the 700 out at $1000, I find it hard to believe that it will be the one competing with LCD2 / T1.  I'm certain it won't be to their caliber like the 800 is.  People with brand loyalty to Sennheiser won't care about paying an extra 500 to have a Senn over an equally competitive Beyer / Audeze despite the fact that they (particularly Beyer) are better more "loyal to fan base" companies imo.

 

I'm not saying they aren't good, I'm sure they're great.  But Sennheiser has an awfully lofty opinion of itself, they make great cans but they are out to make every buck they can rather than pleasing a niche crowd.  Me for instance, I look for a low price, with great sound, and in house production.  Beyer is the last big German company with lots of in house production (German Maestro not as big but they also don't outsource) decent pricing, and competitive sound.  I'm going for a $1k set soon because I want to move up the ladder for once, and as much as I like beyer I think the LCD-2s will be fitting for me, plus other than the revisions, they're a great company, small and dedicated with in house production.  Longevity and expansion makes it harder for companies to stay this way.  I applaud Beyer.

post #322 of 684

So you actually haven't heard them? 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SolomonPierce View Post

Sorry to bump but I love this conversation about pricing... I read that the 800s were meant to be a $600 - $800 set just above the 650, then they decided to try marketing it as being unbelievable and succeeded.  It competes directly with $1000 cans and is not in a class of it's own at $500 more from what I've read.  If you like the sound then it's justifiable but I hate the way Sennheiser is losing touch with its roots.  The 800 is the only set made in Germany and now with the enforced MAP it's ridiculous.  People are starting to leave beats and so forth for better cans and the first thing they come across is Sennheiser as the luxury brand of choice because of their marketing, and if people will pay 500 for beats, why not Senns.  Also once they see Senns are better they'll send over $500 no problem.  Not to mention the hd700 is being delayed because it is being reworked so that it won't compete with the 800.  Even with the 700 out at $1000, I find it hard to believe that it will be the one competing with LCD2 / T1.  I'm certain it won't be to their caliber like the 800 is.  People with brand loyalty to Sennheiser won't care about paying an extra 500 to have a Senn over an equally competitive Beyer / Audeze despite the fact that they (particularly Beyer) are better more "loyal to fan base" companies imo.

 

I'm not saying they aren't good, I'm sure they're great.  But Sennheiser has an awfully lofty opinion of itself, they make great cans but they are out to make every buck they can rather than pleasing a niche crowd.  Me for instance, I look for a low price, with great sound, and in house production.  Beyer is the last big German company with lots of in house production (German Maestro not as big but they also don't outsource) decent pricing, and competitive sound.  I'm going for a $1k set soon because I want to move up the ladder for once, and as much as I like beyer I think the LCD-2s will be fitting for me, plus other than the revisions, they're a great company, small and dedicated with in house production.  Longevity and expansion makes it harder for companies to stay this way.  I applaud Beyer.

post #323 of 684
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolomonPierce View Post

Sorry to bump but I love this conversation about pricing... I read that the 800s were meant to be a $600 - $800 set just above the 650, then they decided to try marketing it as being unbelievable and succeeded.  It competes directly with $1000 cans and is not in a class of it's own at $500 more from what I've read.  If you like the sound then it's justifiable but I hate the way Sennheiser is losing touch with its roots.  The 800 is the only set made in Germany and now with the enforced MAP it's ridiculous.  People are starting to leave beats and so forth for better cans and the first thing they come across is Sennheiser as the luxury brand of choice because of their marketing, and if people will pay 500 for beats, why not Senns.  Also once they see Senns are better they'll send over $500 no problem.  Not to mention the hd700 is being delayed because it is being reworked so that it won't compete with the 800.  Even with the 700 out at $1000, I find it hard to believe that it will be the one competing with LCD2 / T1.  I'm certain it won't be to their caliber like the 800 is.  People with brand loyalty to Sennheiser won't care about paying an extra 500 to have a Senn over an equally competitive Beyer / Audeze despite the fact that they (particularly Beyer) are better more "loyal to fan base" companies imo.

 

I'm not saying they aren't good, I'm sure they're great.  But Sennheiser has an awfully lofty opinion of itself, they make great cans but they are out to make every buck they can rather than pleasing a niche crowd.  Me for instance, I look for a low price, with great sound, and in house production.  Beyer is the last big German company with lots of in house production (German Maestro not as big but they also don't outsource) decent pricing, and competitive sound.  I'm going for a $1k set soon because I want to move up the ladder for once, and as much as I like beyer I think the LCD-2s will be fitting for me, plus other than the revisions, they're a great company, small and dedicated with in house production.  Longevity and expansion makes it harder for companies to stay this way.  I applaud Beyer.

 

Firstly - the HD 800 were never designed to be as cheap as you say.  The initial thoughts were many years ago and even the first thoughts were above the price you say.  The ring driver took a lot of R&D and the price reflects this.

 

What you write makes it clear that you have not actually heard the HD 800.

 

You praise Beyer for "in house production", but the HD 800 is all made "in house" - in fact all Sennheiser headphones are made "in house", except for the cheaper in-ear ones.  I don't know where you get your information from, but nearly all of Sennheiser stuff is in house, they only out source some of the less expensive stuff - and that is all made to Sennheiser specs.

 

I'm sorry, you do talk a lot of rubbish in your post - to say that the HD 700 is "being reworked so that it won't compete with the 800" is total cr*p and very untrue.

 

It seems you are making things up as you go along.

post #324 of 684

The HD800 oozes quality from the moment you open the box and stare in disbelieve at them. That alone is priceless.

post #325 of 684

I heard the hd800 supposed price on here before, and read about the 700 being delayed to be reworked.  I just have no love for Sennheiser as a company is all.

 

They make good cans but they're getting a bit too sure of themselves for my tastes as a buyer.

 

And China and Ireland don't count as "in house" so no, none of Senns line up other than the hd800 is made "in house" (read: in Germany).  hd25,600,650,700 are made in Ireland and the rest, up to and including the hd598 which I own and do love (though I bought it new at a reasonable $170) is made in China.  AKG (owned by Harman now so understandable) is 98% made in China other than the x70x line.  All of these companies do their research & development "in house" but production is outsourced.  Beyer does not do this.  That's all I was getting at, not trying to start a war. 

 

I never claimed to have heard the 800 (unfortunately), just saying from what I've read, they're constantly compared to and are in competition with ~$1000 cans, not a league above them.  For some people, I'm sure they prefer them, but I've read plenty of people who prefer T1 / LCD2.  For that reason I don't see why they should be $500 more.  It may be worth it to some intrinsically because they prefer the sound, but are they really worth that much more extrinsically?  I'm not bashing them as a headphone, just the way they are marketed by Sennheiser.  (edit: You say they ooze quality... as opposed to the LCD2s / T1s?  They're all in the same high end ball park from all reviews I've read, after that it's just a personal choice.)

 

Also I care a great deal about location of assembly because imo it reflects the quality of the final product.  Would you buy a Lamborghini if it was engineered in Italy (owned by Audi but work with me) and "assembled in China"?  That's total bull.  The only reason a company would do this is for money and lack of care about the final product.  They need it to be "good enough to sell" but they don't care about perfection.  That's the message Sennheiser gives off now, only those willing to buy their flagship deserve the absolute care and construction that is mandated in their own on site plant.


Edited by SolomonPierce - 5/8/12 at 10:15am
post #326 of 684
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baxide View Post

The HD800 oozes quality from the moment you open the box and stare in disbelieve at them. That alone is priceless.

 

The prices are the way they are because of people like you.  Good job. 

post #327 of 684
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhythmdevils View Post

 

The prices are the way they are because of people like you.  Good job. 


This guy I like wink_face.gif

post #328 of 684
After listening, I say HD800 should be about $800 to $1000 range.
The paint job on HD800 is horribly done :(
post #329 of 684

SolomonPierce, your posts here have pretty much no value because you haven't heard the headphones and you're just making up nonsense about the history of how they were made. how can you expect anyone to take you seriously? you're overthinking stuff without having any knowledge or experience - a bad combination.

 

And maybe they cost more than the T1 or the LCD2 because of how much more accurately they measure and the engineering that went into them? Have you seen the waterfall plots from purrin for the HD800? they're much, much better the cheaper T1 and LCD2 and compare well to electrostatics that cost significantly more. that kind of driver response isn't cheap.

 

For some people, that kind of accuracy might be worth an extra few hundred dollars. Or maybe they like how the HD800 was designed to be comfortable and not weigh a ton on your head like the LCD2.

post #330 of 684

The HD800 being more lightweight has more to do with it using a completely different technology that doesn't require as many magnets.  The LCD-2 has added weight that is also the result of a frame that has less engineering behind it than the HD800.  But the different tech and driver size is a big part of that too wink.gif

 

The HD800 is overpriced, that's not really arguable.  They cost way more than they are worth in materials, sound, or R&D.  You can buy a whole system in the speaker world including amp that outperforms the HD800 in every single way, costs less, uses much more expensive materials, more quantity of materials, and has equal engineering expenses behind it.  So the HD800 is plainly not worth what they sell for. 

 

Whether they are overpriced compared to other headphones is debatable.  But most other headphones are equally if not more overpriced.  Like the T1, which doesn't have nearly as much engineering behind it as the Hd800 and uses the same frame as all their other phones (which should make it substantially cheaper, it's why Schitt uses the same enclosures for their amps)


Edited by rhythmdevils - 5/8/12 at 11:59am
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