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Is the HD800 overpriced? - Page 9

post #121 of 412
1/19/10 at 12:47am
I guess I'll have to look for a new driver HD650 to listen to if you think they sound better than the HD600. What specifically about them do you like more?
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post #122 of 412
1/19/10 at 12:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by pwnRhasta View Post
They have to make money in some way, if they priced it on the cost to produce them, then... they would make no money and the suppliers would just be making money and also they are basically just giving headphones away. Sennheiser has to survive by making some profit.
Exactly. How much do you think it costs Wilson to make a pair of Alexandria X-2 Series 2? They list for $158,000 and can be had for $135,000 new. $10,000? $20,000? Maybe a little more, or less? There is enormous profit in high-end audio compared to other industries. If you don't want to pay the premium you can always build it yourself.
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post #123 of 412
1/19/10 at 12:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by IPodPJ View Post
I guess I'll have to look for a new driver HD650 to listen to if you think they sound better than the HD600. What specifically about them do you like more?
The veil was just not there. I heard many comments/posts about the famous HD650 veil and just never heard it. Please note that I owned the K701s at the exact same time, so if a veil was present, the contrast would have been very noticeable during my A-B comparisons.

So I thought, let's give the HD600s and older HD650s a try...and did find the older HD650s veiled and not to my tastes. I also had a chance to try out the HD600s and thought they were the most neutral of all three, but I just preferred the bass impact of the newer HD650s overall and better micro detail retrieval.
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post #124 of 412
1/19/10 at 12:53am

Price vs. Cost...

Quote:
Originally Posted by IPodPJ View Post
Exactly. How much do you think it costs Wilson to make a pair of Alexandria X-2 Series 2? They list for $158,000 and can be had for $135,000 new. $10,000? $20,000? Maybe a little more, or less? There is enormous profit in high-end audio compared to other industries. If you don't want to pay the premium you can always build it yourself.
My rule of thumb:

Cost is how much $$$ a company has to invest to build item A.

Price is how much $$$ a company can get for item A...and no correlation to Cost as long as it's more.

But damn, those Wilson's are amazing...it's as if the jazz quartet is literally right in front of you...now if only my lottery numbers ever come in!
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post #125 of 412
1/19/10 at 1:30am
I just started getting into home headphone listening. Of course I have champagne tastes and a beer budget. I took a listen of the HD800 but for the $1400 I got a Woo WA2, Shure shr840's, and AKG k701's. Even with champagne tastes I could not see $1400 just on cans.

If you have the extra cash go for it but don't go into debt to do it.
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post #126 of 412
1/19/10 at 2:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Monkey View Post
What bugs me about the price of the HD800 is that it could very easily be artificially high. Senn's resale price maintenance agreements with its retailers and hard line on undercutters arguably is anticompetitive, although the US Supreme Court recently decided otherwise, turning decades of antitrust law on its head. So without meaningful competition on price--and in the era of the internet, not a whole lot of competition on service--the price is too high almost by definition. Or put another way, if a competition authority decided that RPM is again per se unlawful, then what would happen to the price of the HD800? My intuition is that the price would plummet. However, I readily admit that I do not have any data to support my belief. I'd love to see Senn's elasticity studies. But I'd wager those won't see the light of day any time soon, to the extent that they exist at all.
x2
In a market where most people equate retail price with quality level and the products themselves cost very little to manufacture RPM is a great opportunity to milk your customers for every last cent.
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post #127 of 412
1/19/10 at 3:24am
Quote:
Originally Posted by IPodPJ View Post
n3rdling,
I spent time with them at CanJam as well, a lot more time than at the meets. Deadneddz described stats best to me, that the treble has a whispy quality to it and he's absolutely correct. The treble just sounds artificial to me on any stat I've heard (maybe with the exception of the HE90). Mids are sublime, and bass is usually decent depending on the model.
Like I said, we all have different tastes. Plus, my bigger ears seem to ruffle the stators or, maybe it's something else in there. I can feel my ear lobe rubbing against something and making a clicking noise when I first put them on. Heck, my right ear rubs against the logo on the cloth covering the driver in the HD800, so I asked Sennheiser to remove the raised logo when they make the new ones that don't shed, and they said they would.
Ok that makes sense.

I'm not sure what you're referring to about the clicking, but it might be the infamous "stax fart" you're referring to.

Hopefully Ray brings the HE90 and A10 to the upcoming meet, as it will be interesting for us to listen to them again.
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post #128 of 412
1/19/10 at 4:26am
Out of all high-end equipment... headphones are actually not too bad. Especially when compare to some of the stuff you see selling in Audiogon... You could spend well over a price of a Ferrari on high-end audio gears.

You know what's over price? Furutech. They sell a power cable for almost $2,000... the HD800 doens't seem so expensive now, is it?
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post #129 of 412
1/19/10 at 4:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacedonianHero View Post
My rule of thumb:

Cost is how much $$$ a company has to invest to build item A.

Price is how much $$$ a company can get for item A...and no correlation to Cost as long as it's more.

But damn, those Wilson's are amazing...it's as if the jazz quartet is literally right in front of you...now if only my lottery numbers ever come in!
Only ones I've heard are the Sophia 2, in a bad acoustic environment and not for very long but they sure did sound nice. Not sure if they are worth the asking price though. If I ever had a house and the resources to get a pair of serious speakers I would spend a LONG time auditioning many pairs before I settled on one. It is a major investment, but then again so is a serious headphone rig.
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post #130 of 412
1/19/10 at 4:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by n3rdling View Post
Ok that makes sense.

I'm not sure what you're referring to about the clicking, but it might be the infamous "stax fart" you're referring to.

Hopefully Ray brings the HE90 and A10 to the upcoming meet, as it will be interesting for us to listen to them again.
No, I doubt it's the Stax fart that you mentioned to me. Take your finger and push on the drivers or the mesh covering them and I'm sure you'll hear what my ears do.
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post #131 of 412
1/19/10 at 4:44am
Honestly this thread has been a total waste, nothing has come out of it but wild accusations and second guesses at best. I bought the HD800 knowingly full well there must be a considerable mark up on such a luxury product. I don't give a rats arse frankly, not one second thought, the bottom line is folks it's up to you. I also don't care if Sennheiser is going for the jugular with profit, even if they were five times the price, as a luxury item is totally up to you to buy or not.
There's heaps of cheap alternatives everyone, buy one of those instead. Nuf said.
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post #132 of 412
1/19/10 at 5:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by IPodPJ View Post
No, I doubt it's the Stax fart that you mentioned to me. Take your finger and push on the drivers or the mesh covering them and I'm sure you'll hear what my ears do.
Ya that's the Stax fart I believe the pocket of air caused by the seal between your ears and the drivers puts pressure on the membrane which causes the fart. It happens when you press the driver against your head or break the seal sometimes.

John, I agree with you. This topic comes up every month or two regarding various expensive gear, usually the HE90 or R10, and goes the same way every time.
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post #133 of 412
1/19/10 at 5:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by anetode View Post
If people bought more senns instead of bose & skullcandy, the HD800 might be cheaper. With so much crap in the marketplace, it's expensive to develop and market a quality product.
If Sennheiser had a more successful marketing team maybe they would sell more, bose and skullcandy don't sell well because they are good. They sell well because they are advertised very well.

But then again you can tell Sennheiser puts their money into their products as opposed to the advertising as well haha, fun fun catch22.
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post #134 of 412
1/19/10 at 5:36am
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Monkey View Post
Why? Does recabling make them nimble and lively?
It makes them less colored and more listenable, and that's it. However, you do it actually at a cost of a nylon sleeve, 2x $2/m professional OFC cable, Cardas connectors and a gold plated jack or balanced plug. And that's it. No snake oil $500. On the other hand it's not yet Stax Omega II as it will never be, nor would it be a high Grado model. Ask Piotr Ryka via PM for impressions if interested. He's got a decent headphone setup and the aforementioned cable assembled by me.
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post #135 of 412
1/19/10 at 8:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnwmclean View Post
Yeah, yeah bring on the violins, the only thing in full swing is your imagination your signaling Sennheiser out to be the only culprit in a sea of vultures.
This THREAD is about the HD800 in case you had not noticed.
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