Grados for classical?

Hi,

In my opinion Grados need an amp to sound their best. I was at a Head-Fi'ers house yesterday and with his 80i and my HF-2 we both agreed.

As for Grados with classical, that's tough. Grados have a colored sound signature as a whole. What make them sound great for rock makes them not as strong with classical. My AKG 701 sound much more natural and has the extra detail needed for the genre.

Grados can put out sound well enough without an amp, but all headphones improve with an amplifier - the difference is how much they improve. The lower end Grado's do sound better, but the difference isn't as pronounced as say, when using a 325i as compared to the 80i.

They sound fine with classical IMO, but I think the coloration, lack of soundstage, and the Grado house sound in general doesn't suit the classical genre. In other words, they sound okay, but there's always a better option; as baka1969 mentioned - K701's are pretty suited for classical (as well as jazz).

MS1000 seems to work. It's a mod from the MS1; check it out.

Get the SR60s if you can. They're less expensive and they do pretty much what Grados were meant to do. They're open-air cans, which means you sacrifice bass punch to get very neutral and transparent mids with minimal resonance. The higher-end Grados are selling mahogany and aluminum chambers (as well as higher-grade copper wiring) but most of the magic is in the open-air design. Saying the Grados are better for rock is a little like saying they're the Big Mac of audiophile sound, but I actually think the Grados sound better with acoustical music, such as folk and classical. I think the HF spikes of the Grados make them less euphonic with the screeching HF of metal and the carpeted distortion of much alt rock.

I've owned most of the Grado models and my favorite tracks with them are the plucking, acoustic, mellow stuff. With an amp, you can get back the bass lost on open cans - which makes Grados sound better on rock and blues tracks, as well as hip hop. Said another way, to get that bone-crushing thump of a club beat, Grados need an amp in the same way Magnepan speakers need a subwoofer to augment their transparent but bass lite sound.

On something like classical, the Grado house sound is at its best, regardless of what passes for wisdom on headfi. Listening to classical, you don't want dark cans. Dark cans are useful for suppressing HF so the bass can be cranked up for that thumping back beat, which is why you'll notice how muddy so many of them sound. The SR60 is so much clearer in the mids and HF, with minimal resonance. It's a much better fit for acoustical music where most of the sound presentation is not at the thumping club-beat end of the spectrum.

P.S. The SR60s use the flatter S-Cush pads. This improves the bass and attenuates the HF (which spikes anyway). If you want more HF and more extension in the high end, take the money you saved on the 60s and buy a pair of L-Cush pads, which will open up the HF even more.

I can't really recommend Grado for classical, other than the HP-1000 series. Except those are a little more than you want to spend and out of production.

The thing about Grados is that they're tuned to make rock sound very, very good. And it works. But what sounds great emphasized in rock does not translate well to classical. You'll get emphasis where it doesn't belong and - in my opinion - it does not work very well.

If you're listening to guitar playing classical, that sounds good, but not for big orchestral or anything similar.

Wow - my experience of Grados are like...the opposite of some here!

I really am unhappy with my Grados for rock music; it's way too bright and uncomfortable to listen to. I've got the 125s (not 'i') and they are just beautiful for classical music - great instrument separation and fine on the bass. They cost very little so there's no reason not to get a set.

They don't quite have the tautness of the Sennheiser HD25 Mark IIs; the soundstage of the two are very similar - with no advantages perceptible to me (and only me maybe) between the open Grado and the closed Sennheisers.

Now the Sennheiser HD280 Pros are very affordable and are just great with classical music! I have no problems listening to them, but prefer the Grado 125s which are way more comfy. You might find them less dark than the HD25 Mark IIs, if you're used to the Grado 60i sound.

Head and shoulders above all of these for pure sonority and a huge soundstage is the Ultrasone Pro 900s. I'm just in love with these, although I've only had them for a week. Neither too bright nor too dark. Just transparent and expansive in its soundstage.

IMO, you need a can that resolve detail very well and that are smooth. Most, myself included, would prefer a pair of cans that are less forward sounding in the upper mids to highs than a typical Grado. I prefer a can that's more neutral in sound presentation. You, like Head_Case, may be different on this matter.

I'd personally aim higher and go for a SR325is. It's bright for rock, but I find that it works quite well for classical. As always, it would be great to try these things first. Will you be using them with an amp?? I'd certainly recommend amp'ing for the 325is or any of the higher end Grado's for that matter.

i think the ms1 does a decent job with string instruments in classical music. the positioning isn't too bad either but the lack of depth makes me frown. i can definitely enjoy classical music with those but in no way would they be my main cans for that genre.

For your need: tell the instruments apart, SR80i is very capable. In fact, some mid/high-level phones from other brand are just about the same level of detail but only with different sound signature. Grados have a front row sound, the sound pass through you without much reverbration (compare to other brand).

The thing I like about Grado is that the front row sound is very consistent. Some other phones try to create the soundstage by emphasizing the reverbration. Sometimes the trick works, sometimes doesn't. It's ok to give a large scale work a seemingly huge sound stage, but just plain wrong to give a recital in small hall a big sound stage. Grados won't have this issue, you will have a front row sound regardless the scale of recording (except for GS-1000).

Sennheiser HD650, HD600 or AKG701, 702 are also good phones, but they really need a amp to shine. The sad thing is even using a very suitable system, they sometimes fall short especially in large scale works. To make things worse, the sub $1K system you build around them typically need a complete replacement once you decide to go to higher level like Grado GSK, PSK, Sennheiser HD800 or other current flag ship. My guess is that flag ship phones since Grado GSK raise the high frequency reproducing to a whole new level. Amps designed for HD650 or others try to address the high reproduction issue by emphasizing the highs which is an over kill for those new flagship phones.

You probably don't need to worry about the story above for a long while. Just grab a SR80i for most value from your pocket now. SR80i is an excellent starting point for headphone listening because their detailness level. Also, they sound good without amp (a powerful portable source like Cowon D2 is pretty enough).

grado's definitely not suitable for classical genre
a big no no

If you feel so strongly about, at least say why?

I find classical music to be the only genre that I rather prefer having a dead flat frequency response when listening to. that's why I absolutely love the HD650 with classical comparing to my other cans which is the D5000 and the RS1. the HD650 may not be dead flat, but they are relatively much more neutral than grado and denon,but still go very deep in the low registers to show what the orchestra can do down there.
i also did not like classical with my RS1, but I heard that the GS1000,PS1000 models are more suitable for that. with the RS1, only rock and metal for me.

Ms1000.

The lower end SR series can do classical with a Grado flavor. You have to realize that they will color the sound of the midrange strings, just like they do with acoustical and electric guitar in rock. A little extra body and fullness and resonance in the midrange strings can be nice. Just know that it's not a reference sound. If you hear a violin in real life and then listen to a recording of that violin played back on the Grado it is not going to sound the same.

The Grados do make you very aware that you are listening to headphones. You're very aware that the drivers are right there at each ear. The soundstage doesn't complete and merge in the middle between your ears. The soundstage doesn't wrap around or extend beyond the ears the way headphones like the HD600 or K701 or similar headphones can. The left ear and right ear type of soundstage isn't very suited for choral works or piano. With piano that is recorded to have the high notes on the right, low notes on the left, and middle merged between, it doesn't work right on the Grado SR series. You're left with the high keys very much on the right, low keys very much on the left, and the middle range not merging between the two.

I have not tried an amp that has crossfeed. I suspect that some crossfeed would address the piano and chorus style music. Get the soundstage to better merge. But I don't have an amp that does crossfeed and I haven't played with crossfeed effects in software.

Things like the Shostakovich string quartets are nice on the Grado. You get the attacks on the strings in ways that you don't get with headphones like the HD600. Same with Shostakovich symphonies. Listening on the Grados makes you very much aware of how aggressive the orchestra is playing. It's a different experience compared to the HD600.

Is the lower end Grado ideal for classical (SR 225 and below)? No
Can it be used for classical? Yes, but not ideal with piano and choral
Is the Grado fun for classical? Yes
Would I want a Grado as my only classical music headphone? No
Would it be a good choice for listening unamped? Yes