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Chameleon DAC listening and modifications - Page 65

post #961 of 1144

Hi earnst, I dont think it could be because of the async that the hiface does not work with the hiface because it works fine with my Musiland usd 01 which is also async. It has been noticed elsewhere that low impedance battery sources such ans Li-on, and voltages below 9v can cause the Ultravox to not work in some setups. There is a discusion about that here;

 

http://diyparadise.com/forum/index.php?topic=1133.30

post #962 of 1144

Thanks Wood.

post #963 of 1144

yeah, thanks wood

 

so then does your musiland reclock?


Edited by errnst - 5/21/10 at 12:09pm
post #964 of 1144

Yes it does, but it uses a software loop, only using a crystal for reference, I think that's why the Hiface is Superior, as it uses 2 dedicated clocks. The Ultravox improved the Musiland significantly, but at the moment I prefer to use the Ultravox just on its own, it just sounds more real/NOS than Ultravox + Musiland.

 

 

By the way in case anybody is interested I came across this picture of the new M2Tech Evo

 

 

 

http://www.hifimusic.co.il/%D7%93%D7%A1%D7%A7-%D7%94%D7%97%D7%93%D7%A9%D7%95%D7%AA%3A-%D7%A9%D7%9C%D7%95%D7%A9%D7%94-%D7%9E%D7%95%D7%A6%D7%A8%D7%99%D7%9D-%D7%97%D7%93%D7%A9%D7%99%D7%9D-%D7%9C-M2Tech-t2919.html

 

correction I think the picture is of new M2Tech dac

 

here is the translated page

 

http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=1&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hifimusic.co.il%2F%25D7%2593%25D7%25A1%25D7%25A7-%25D7%2594%25D7%2597%25D7%2593%25D7%25A9%25D7%2595%25D7%25AA%3A-%25D7%25A9%25D7%259C%25D7%2595%25D7%25A9%25D7%2594-%25D7%259E%25D7%2595%25D7%25A6%25D7%25A8%25D7%2599%25D7%259D-%25D7%2597%25D7%2593%25D7%25A9%25D7%2599%25D7%259D-%25D7%259C-M2Tech-t2919.html&sl=auto&tl=en


Edited by Wood - 5/21/10 at 2:24pm
post #965 of 1144

News?

 

Pacific Valve is now selling Chameleon in cool looking black cases.

 

6moons still hasn't published their Chameleon review.

post #966 of 1144
Quote:
Originally Posted by sinrouge88 View Post

Bill,

   Thanks for posting the result.

    I am interested to try the Ultravox board on my usb input. In your test, did you connect the usb output of the Ultravox to the Chemeleon usb input with an usb cable or you made a direct connection ( i.e: by soldering)? Do you think it make any difference with direct connection via soldering?

   Can you post the link to order the Ultravox?

Thanks.

Yes unfortunately the USB cables do make a sonic difference pre or post the ASUM module as would a hard wire USB connection. The only way around this would be to use an Asynchronous USB interface such as the M2Tech Hiface. With the Hiface I tried every USB cable I have, including a 5 meter cable with an extension coupler, no difference in sound.

 

With that said what would I do? Start with the best USB cable you have in front of the Ultravox ASUM then hardwire direct to the USB D+ and D- on the Chameleon input board with solid silver wire. Doesn't look like you need to hook up the 5VDC from the USB output inside the DAC. The USB 5V positive is only used to turn on the yellow light of the front of the Chameleon, not sure about the USB ground but chances are it's also not needed. My plan is to mount the Ultravox module internal by opening up the rear faceplate directly above the existing USB input and epoxy glue the USB B jack to the existing USB B input jack. The card will sit vertical adjacent to the input board. Ultravox power input wire soldered to the 8 VDC of the DAC, for now I am using a 9V battery and that also works fine. I will post pictures when I get around to this finishing this mod.

 

As I previously mentioned the Utravox mod is a "big" improvement to my stock Chameleon USB input ... in my system. Dedicated Mac Mini with SSD 4GB RAM, ITunes, Amarra, Kimber USB cable, Belkin Gold USB cable. This combo does make music!

 

How does it compare to the" Pace Car" I2S or Spdif input ... well sorry it still doesn't. However after the IFU mod I must say that now my Chameleon Spdif and Chameleon I2S DAC's sound very close to each other. I can now recommend anyone with the balls to go ahead and try floating the total Spdif input ground over to their source.  Both Tony and I have achieved excellent results, by the way Tony just uses a Northstar transport. I verified this with my own ears by flying out to visit Tony in Albuquereque last Thurs/Fri, awesome sounding system. We attended two live Jazz performances, drank fresh IPA from the Marble Brewery, and then listened to his system till 3AM. It was all so REAL ... thanks for the hospitality Tony!

post #967 of 1144

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Allen View Post

........................

With that said what would I do? Start with the best USB cable you have in front of the Ultravox ASUM then hardwire direct to the USB D+ and D- on the Chameleon input board with solid silver wire. Doesn't look like you need to hook up the 5VDC from the USB output inside the DAC. The USB 5V positive is only used to turn on the yellow light of the front of the Chameleon, not sure about the USB ground but chances are it's also not needed. ..........

I would agree, about routing the USB directly to the input board as i don't believe the D+ & D- routing is optimal at present. BTW, the Ultravox chip is called ADUM4160 not ASUM.

You can ignore the USB 5V in the Chameleon, it seems - you cannot, however get rid of the USB ground - the USB signalling relies on a ground reference, I believe.

post #968 of 1144

Hi Guys,

 

Something weird is happening to my Chameleon.

 

I previously had an issue that i thought was to do with the resister value, where i got massive distortion, I used 220r. I took out some dac chips(4) and it worked fine. However now that i have a couple of new 170r resistors, tried 16 chips with 170r, NOISE!!!

 

 I was able to run 15 chips for a bout 4 hours, the sound quality was great! switched it off, took the mrs to get some seafood, came back turned it on and DISTORTION!!! wtf? the distortion came back!!! on 15!, it was working fine 2 hours ago, why would i get distortion now? this is not a problem with the resister then, because i should be able to run 16 dac on 170r. so no i am running 14 chips with 170R and sound came back to normal..

 

 

this is so weird, i can't figure it out.

 

 

btw, i measured the voltage feeding the dac board at 9.5V!, it should be 7.5V shouldn't it? i tried turning the blue variable resistor on the power supply board and get no change in voltage what so ever! I am running the yellow wire.

 

look like i got a dud chameleon :)

 

also just a warning to those soldering the ultravox direct to the chameleon, becareful!.. i fried my ultravox due some carelessness on my behalf! oh well waiting for a new one to arrived.

 

 

on another topic, there is a lot of talk on the input side, but have anyone tried replacing the stock transformer with a "better" one but keep the circuit board?

 

thanks

 

post #969 of 1144

As I said before 220r would not cause 'massive distortion' its likely when you removed the dac chips to make the output compatible with the 220r, you in fact you removed the chips that were damaged and causing the distortion. Its seems another chip is damaged now. TDA1543 are very cheap so get some spares. To check it is the chips, you could swap the 2 you removed with 2 on the board, so still keep 14 chips, if you get distortion again, you will know you need new chips.

post #970 of 1144

thanks wood,

 

tried that before,

 

i tried removing random chips out and it does not matter which one i have in, i get distortion if i have 16, now 15 :)

 

btw.. where can i get the chip from? i tried ebay but can;t find it..

post #971 of 1144
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Allen View Post

 

How does it compare to the" Pace Car" I2S or Spdif input ... well sorry it still doesn't. However after the IFU mod I must say that now my Chameleon Spdif and Chameleon I2S DAC's sound very close to each other. I can now recommend anyone with the balls to go ahead and try floating the total Spdif input ground over to their source.  Both Tony and I have achieved excellent results, by the way Tony just uses a Northstar transport. I verified this with my own ears by flying out to visit Tony in Albuquereque last Thurs/Fri, awesome sounding system. We attended two live Jazz performances, drank fresh IPA from the Marble Brewery, and then listened to his system till 3AM. It was all so REAL ... thanks for the hospitality Tony!

 

Bill, please take my word and replace the 12Mhz XO by a good one! I'm a 1000% sure you won't regret and will be VERY happy!

With both XO's replaced the sound differences between with and without upsampling board became smaller and I actually like both now, depending on the source material. Without upsampling it is more organic, natural and musical. With upsampling board the sound gets tighter but without the grainy, harsch sound which was caused by the stock XO. Nice when you have a 'muddy' sounding recording.

 

I know Tentlabs has several dealers in the USA but I don't know which. A new one was added recently: http://www.xerocommaudio.com/

I will ask Tentlabs for a list with USA dealers. Maybe you can try to get one on loan or a 'money back guarantee' from one of those dealers. The Dollar is very strong compared to the Euro at the moment so it is more interesting for people from the USA to buy European products.


 


Edited by rhodes54 - 5/24/10 at 5:02am
post #972 of 1144

How about this 12M XO ?  ^-^

http://cid-1eb7027489224a7d.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/XO%20comparsion/20100518067.jpg

It shows the phase noises at 100, 1k, 10k and 100k Hz. 

100Hz:  -105dBC/Hz
1KHz:  -120dBC/Hz
10KHz:  -122dBC/Hz
100KHz:  -120dBC/Hz

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by rhodes54 View Post



 

Bill, please take my word and replace the 12Mhz XO by a good one! I'm a 1000% sure you won't regret and will be VERY happy!

With both XO's replaced the sound differences between with and without upsampling board became smaller and I actually like both now, depending on the source material. Without upsampling it is more organic, natural and musical. With upsampling board the sound gets tighter but without the grainy, harsch sound which was caused by the stock XO. Nice when you have a 'muddy' sounding recording.

 

I know Tentlabs has several dealers in the USA but I don't know which. A new one was added recently: http://www.xerocommaudio.com/

I will ask Tentlabs for a list with USA dealers. Maybe you can try to get one on loan or a 'money back guarantee' from one of those dealers. The Dollar is very strong compared to the Euro at the moment so it is more interesting for people from the USA to buy European products.


 

post #973 of 1144

Hi Teraguy,

Could you PM me - I've tried contacting you but I mustn't be getting through?

 

Can't make out the Y scale on the pic - is it 20dBC/Hz per division?

 

Edit: I zoomed in & can now see that it's 10dBC/Hz - pretty good result!

Does it come in 22.576 & 24.5792 speeds?


Edited by jkeny - 5/24/10 at 10:03am
post #974 of 1144

Looks very promising Teraguy! Now an ultra low noise power supply around it (That is what makes the Tentlabs such a good clock) and we've got a new reference!
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by teraguy View Post

How about this 12M XO ?  ^-^

http://cid-1eb7027489224a7d.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/XO%20comparsion/20100518067.jpg

It shows the phase noises at 100, 1k, 10k and 100k Hz. 

100Hz:  -105dBC/Hz
1KHz:  -120dBC/Hz
10KHz:  -122dBC/Hz
100KHz:  -120dBC/Hz

 


 


 

post #975 of 1144

Hi rhodes54,

Which model Tentlabs clock(s) are you using in the Chameleon VCXO? XO? What kind of power supply are you using for that clock?

Thanks

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