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Chameleon DAC listening and modifications - Page 48

post #706 of 1144

Congratulations in order

Quote:
Originally Posted by PatOMalley View Post
far far more relaxed with the caps out of the way.

Bill forwarded me a link that showed how Dave Slagle was able tom implement a version of output coupling and I used that.

It ties a 180ohm resistor to ground from both legs of the primary. Nada on the secondary.
Four resistor in play. Two on the left, two on the right. I asked bill to resend that link to me and when he does I will copy and paste out the version I used.

There is absolutely no hint of any edge. Smooth. I used cheap 2W resistors and I am sure replacing them with TX nudes will open it out a lot more.

Big effin win!
Thats terrific!!!

Please let us know everything in spades!!!!
post #707 of 1144
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhodes54 View Post
Just wait for a short while, if you have the patience. The updated version of the Chameleon, with of lot of our suggestions added, will be available soon. This also contains an updated DC-30W.

As far as I know the design of the older version of the DC-30W has been changed a bit by Teradak in order to work fine with the Chameleon.
"Available soon"? Any idea how long? Weeks, months? After waiting for months until I could afford it, and then weeks until it was available, I am like a kid with his nose against the sweet shop window!
post #708 of 1144
Quote:
Originally Posted by awkwardbydesign View Post
"Available soon"? Any idea how long? Weeks, months? After waiting for months until I could afford it, and then weeks until it was available, I am like a kid with his nose against the sweet shop window!
Don't know when it will be avaible exactly. Drop them a mail (e-mail address can be found on their website) and you'll probably get your answer soon. :-)
post #709 of 1144
it probably would be worth a month long wait....

my eavily modded 1541 gold crown DAC slightly outperformed the valab dac with a few mods, so I'd wait until the saving matches the stovk offer of the chameleon .....
post #710 of 1144
Thread Starter 

did i say i liked this transformer coupling thing?

A short bit of gushing description:

The level of presence is far increased with direct output coupling. Palpable. Voices are spooky real.

What the Mundorf capacitors did was enjoyable but nowhere even close to this sense of tactile reality.

Resolution is a funny word. I am hearing details on all kinds of things but not like you've taken a high powered lens to it. More like things are just out of the way. The Mundorfs added a bit of zing and a liquid kind of energy. Which gave the impression of detail in that it wrapped a smooth [yeah, liquid] but thin 'edge' on things, delineating them. The transformer just lets them be. And very powerful.

Time to start looking at different output transformers ... high nickel, silver.
post #711 of 1144
excellent pat, I just took those pictures for you too, but with my dacs (buffalo II/ackodac sabre 9018/12)I dont need any loading, the transformer itself has an impedance of 600:600 so this takes care of the I/U conversion for me, no need for any resistors in my setup.

I would agree totally with the assessment of the comparison of caps to transformers, its like they dont even have to try. the bass in my setup is astounding, so tight that at first I thought it was a bit reduced, but then when I tried out a track that I knew had stonking bass and...woah!!
post #712 of 1144
Quote:
Originally Posted by qusp View Post
excellent pat, I just took those pictures for you too, but with my dacs (buffalo II/ackodac sabre 9018/12)I dont need any loading, the transformer itself has an impedance of 600:600 so this takes care of the I/U conversion for me, no need for any resistors in my setup.
Qusp
I think those cinemags are 600:600, so why do you, not need resistors, and Pat does? Can the I/V be done in the transformers with the TDA1543 output like with you sabre, or are resistors still required in this case? What are using as ouput trannys qusp?
post #713 of 1144
Quote:
Originally Posted by PatOMalley View Post
The output wiring for the CineMag 1:1 600ohm transformers.

Thanks goes to Dave Slagle.



You do not need to take the leg of the neg to ground. It reaches ground through the 180R. I should amend my drawing and remove that dangling wire.
I'm in a bit of a rush here, so please excuse me. Cinemags arrived Monday. Which side of the transformers is this applied (wire color)?
post #714 of 1144
Thread Starter 

hookup

Primary is Red -, Brown + .... Goes to DACs and has the resistors
Secondary is Yellow -, Orange + ..... goes to RCA



Burnin? What is burnin?!?!?! hahahaha
post #715 of 1144
Thread Starter 

amended drawing

The 180R noted is whatever value you want to use as i/v resistors. 175 or 160, etc.

post #716 of 1144
Quote:
Originally Posted by PatOMalley View Post
Primary is Red -, Brown + .... Goes to DACs and has the resistors
Secondary is Yellow -, Orange + ..... goes to RCA
Will this work as-is with the Valab? The ground off the resistors, is that going to the common ground? Kind of hard to tell what's going on with your overhead pic of the Chameleon (with the Texas)... Strange seeing it with no output caps.

Man, this threw a wrench in the gears but it's certainly welcome. I'm glad you did this mod right as my set of Cinemags arrived.

Edit: No, I see. Will work in principle but I didn't recognize the path. I didn't realize the resistors in this circuit were the i/v resistors.
post #717 of 1144
Thread Starter 
the are i/v on the + but you need one on the neg to balance the transformer or it becomes unstable.

tie two resistors together end to end.
then solder the ends of that duo to the pos and neg so that you have a two resistor bridge from neg to pos.
tie the gap between the two resistors to common ground. Then tie your pos to the pos on the dac board or to the DAC.
Now you have an i/v resistance for the output, neg going to ground thru the other resistor.

If you have resistors on the DAC board take them off. Best to go to the leg of the DAc. Best way to do that is with a separate length of wire.

EDIT: It works more that just in principle, Newk. It works in practice. ;-)
The steel core is a softer sound that caps. Maybe silver or HiNi is sharper, more delineated.
post #718 of 1144
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wood View Post
Qusp
I think those cinemags are 600:600, so why do you, not need resistors, and Pat does? Can the I/V be done in the transformers with the TDA1543 output like with you sabre, or are resistors still required in this case? What are using as ouput trannys qusp?
well it appears not as unless Pat had something else different going on before he added loading there wasnt enough voltage getting converted without them. in my case is a little odd too, the sabre is a current out DAC into impedances lower than ~675R per pole, but if it sees more than this it becomes voltage. there are separate V outs on the sabre 9012/18 as well (not in use here) the output impedance of combined 4 parallel dacs per channel in the sabre is 195R per pole, so per dac the output impedance is quite low, couldnt tell you for sure which factor makes it work rewaly well with the sabre unloaded and i'm going to play with tweaking it regardless to see if I can get further improvement, but the sound just flows..voltages/levels are healthy, no frequency seems lacking, the top end is open and the soundstage is too, showing no signs of lacking drive. the trannies are high nickel O-Netics made by Bud purvine and the owner also had a sabre and has quite a bit of experience with transformer coup[ling, when I asked him about loading he suggested I try without first, for the reasons I mentioned IE. the intrinsic resistance of the trannie itself is enough to do the I/U conversion; so I did. even bought some uber foil resistor trimpots from texas components for finding the right measure, but still sitting in a snaploack

Quote:
Originally Posted by PatOMalley View Post
the are i/v on the + but you need one on the neg to balance the transformer or it becomes unstable.

tie two resistors together end to end.
then solder the ends of that duo to the pos and neg so that you have a two resistor bridge from neg to pos.
tie the gap between the two resistors to common ground. Then tie your pos to the pos on the dac board or to the DAC.
Now you have an i/v resistance for the output, neg going to ground thru the other resistor.

If you have resistors on the DAC board take them off. Best to go to the leg of the DAc. Best way to do that is with a separate length of wire.

EDIT: It works more that just in principle, Newk. It works in practice. ;-)
The steel core is a softer sound that caps. Maybe silver or HiNi is sharper, more delineated.
indeed, now of course i've got my eye on some more serious Xfrs from electra print $$$$
post #719 of 1144
Quote:
Originally Posted by PatOMalley View Post
the are i/v on the + but you need one on the neg to balance the transformer or it becomes unstable.

tie two resistors together end to end.
then solder the ends of that duo to the pos and neg so that you have a two resistor bridge from neg to pos.
tie the gap between the two resistors to common ground. Then tie your pos to the pos on the dac board or to the DAC.
Now you have an i/v resistance for the output, neg going to ground thru the other resistor.

If you have resistors on the DAC board take them off. Best to go to the leg of the DAc. Best way to do that is with a separate length of wire.

EDIT: It works more that just in principle, Newk. It works in practice. ;-)
The steel core is a softer sound that caps. Maybe silver or HiNi is sharper, more delineated.

I'm going to build the outboard setup first since I have all the pieces for it and get acquainted with the sound the steel transformers produce with the Obbligato gold premium caps I've had loaded for a long time. I think it would be a mistake to skip that step. I also want to give you the time to try other transformers and see how they work for you.
post #720 of 1144
kinda pointless having the transformers AND caps in there IMO, one of (IMO THE) main reason for going with transformer coupling is to rid yourself of those, its the main benefit and i'm a little confused as to the aim of combining them, all you are doing is adding unneeded components to the signal path. sure you get ground isolation as well; actually thats a big point, dont bother using trannies unless you have floated the ground on output, the only ground that should be connected anywhere after the trannies is the ground of the transformer.
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