or Connect
Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Dedicated Source Components › Chameleon DAC listening and modifications
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Chameleon DAC listening and modifications - Page 45

post #661 of 1144
Thread Starter 

yes

I have been using them across Obbligatos on several other machines and you gotta wait. What they end up doing is disappearing and just leaving extension behind. They really do get out of the way. The thing is, do you enjoy high level HiFi extension?


Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeW View Post
Yeah I know how long the teflon's are supposed to take to burn in, but they have had 340 hrs, if they are sounding this bad now, I don't see them improving enough in the next 300 hrs. Maybe im wrong? Can I go from really disliking them at 340 hrs to loving them at 700 hrs?
post #662 of 1144

Cinemag update

I first got in touch with David Geren on February 1st about getting a set of the Cinemag transformers to do Pat's Cinemag mod. About a month ago I got an email that the transformers were about to made and an invoice for payment, payment made, then nothing again for weeks. I wrote several more emails that got no reply until today. David apologized for the delay and said that the transformers are shipping tomorrow. He's been dealing with a family issue that's taken priority over business. His wife is terminally ill.

I'll add that it appears that Tom Reichenbach, the actual member of the family business may not be active with Cinemag anymore as the contact link for him now goes to David Geren's email address.

I intended to hard wire the transformers into my Valab but I changed my mind and instead ordered a set of Blue Jeans Cables interconnects to integrate with the transformers. Blue Jeans Cables has an excellent reputation for top quality, straight forward, non-boutique custom made cables. The transformers will be mounted and enclosed in an aluminum project box. I'll get back about sound impressions after it's all together.
post #663 of 1144
Thread Starter 

outboard OPT

Newk Yuler - I did the outboard box and it worked out fine. There was maybe a small difference going hard wired but I can not swear on the degree - not with the caps still in place.

the good thing about the outboard box is that you can move the TXs around between different DACs, line pres, phono pres, - comes in handy having them that way.
post #664 of 1144

The "Super" FRM MOD

Inspired by recent posts I decided to play around this afternoon with different caps in the FRM. This was my final concoction.



The recycled pair of 20uf Wima coupling caps, bypassed with a 1000uf FK Blackgate salvaged from my Valab, it being bypassed with a .1uf blue Vishay-Roderstein.

Not bad if I do say myself, just the right amount of ... kick!
post #665 of 1144
Thread Starter 

that's a thought

I have a .01uf blue Vishay-Roderstein ... I swore I was going to leave those screws in for a while and now look what you've done.

Do I need to keep the Vishay close re leads or can I give some length?
Because it is a difference of below the board nice and tight, or above with a little lead. [pardon the pun].
post #666 of 1144
Pat- I wrapped the long leads of the Vishay tightly around the short Blackgate leads and soldered them down. Next I soldered the remaining legs of the Vishay down to the Wima's.

So no I am not paranoid of long legs picking up stray RF if that is what you are asking.

Sounds great!
post #667 of 1144

Nuts!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Allen View Post

So no I am not paranoid of long legs picking up stray RF if that is what you are asking.

Sounds great!
Glad you said that, I thought I was going nuts, so much talk of long legs picking up stray RF and I thought I was the only one who couldn't hear it. Must try your multiple size cap trick here to!
post #668 of 1144
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wood View Post
Glad you said that, I thought I was going nuts, so much talk of long legs picking up stray RF and I thought I was the only one who couldn't hear it. Must try your multiple size cap trick here to!
RF is only something to watch out for in the digital part of the valab/chameleon.
post #669 of 1144

Bypass Mania

To all those who are experimenting with bypass caps on the output caps of the Chameleon: If you have high quality caps like Duelund, Mundorf Silver/Gold or Silver/Gold/Oil, try hem without bypass cap! You will notice that the sound will be much better with a bypass cap. With a bypass cap I got more smearing in the high frequencies, I lost depth and width in the stereofield and lost transient response.
Mundorf Silver/Oil on the other hand can benefit from a bypass cap as this cap sounds a bit "slow" and too warm (for my taste).

Just experiment with bypass caps as much as you like but also try your output caps without them!
post #670 of 1144
I totally second the smearing bit for coupling caps!
post #671 of 1144
Rhodes- Right on the money, the best quality caps do not need bypassing; Duelunds, Cryo'd Jupiter's, V-Caps/Teflons, & Mundorf Silver/Gold/Oil. However I say starting with the Silver/Gold & Silver Oil Mundorf's a bypass cap may be required depending on your tastes and system. However I agree its always best to go without a bypass whenever possible.

To be honest I was very sceptical applying bypass caps to the FRM ... but I cannot deny the results. I am sure there are endless combinations of dynamic flavors available to the modder depending on how you configure this FRM array. It just goes to show you power delivery to the DAC chips is simply another way of tuning your "Chameleon Amp."

Tuning the "Chameleon DAC" is a whole nuther matter. There are delicate issues at play and you have a better chance of screwing things up rather than lowering jitter. The FIM mod is not for everyone, Rhodes 74HC04 Mod is delicate ... as was the DIR9001 Mod on the Valab. TeraDak has now implemented the 74HC04 mod but understandably not the FIM or DIR9001. Things are in play on the digital side beyond the scope of this thread. You must thread lightly on this side of the fence!
post #672 of 1144

Chameleon & Tentlabs XO-Clock

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Allen View Post
Rhodes- Right on the money, the best quality caps do not need bypassing; Duelunds, Cryo'd Jupiter's, V-Caps/Teflons, & Mundorf Silver/Gold/Oil. However I say starting with the Silver/Gold & Silver Oil Mundorf's a bypass cap may be required depending on your tastes and system. However I agree its always best to go with a bypass whenever possible.

To be honest I was very sceptical applying bypass caps to the FRM ... but I cannot deny the results. I am sure there are endless combinations of dynamic flavors available to the modder depending on how you configure this FRM array. It just goes to show you power delivery to the DAC chips is simply another way of tuning your "Chameleon Amp."

Tuning the "Chameleon DAC" is a whole nuther matter. There are delicate issues at play and you have a better chance of screwing things up rather than lowering jitter. The FIM mod is not for everyone, Rhodes 74HC04 Mod is delicate ... as was the DIR9001 Mod on the Valab. TeraDak has now implemented the 74HC04 mod but understandably not the FIM or DIR9001. Things are in play on the digital side beyond the scope of this thread. You must thread lightly on this side of the fence!
b.t.w. I might need to clear up things a bit: I am only talking about removing bypass caps at the analog output stage. You are right that bypassing in powerregulation and digital circuits are often required.

I decided not to give up on the tentlabs clocks and give them another try with the Chameleon. The Tentlabs clock was a bit hard to implement in the Valab but both the design of the Chameleon and having the schematic available make things much easier. My ideal goal is to give the WM8805 a new external clock and also the upsampling board.
I listened a lot to the Chameleon with and without the upsampling board lately and I actually like that upsampling board a lot as the sound gets a much faster transient response. It all sounds a bit tighter. What I dislike is the grainy sound of the upsampling baord which is probably caused by the clock which is not too good. So adding another tentlabs clock there could be the solution. I will get 2 boards next week to experiment with.
post #673 of 1144

Teachable moment here

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Allen View Post
Rhodes- Right on the money, the best quality caps do not need bypassing; Duelunds, Cryo'd Jupiter's, V-Caps/Teflons, & Mundorf Silver/Gold/Oil. However I say starting with the Silver/Gold & Silver Oil Mundorf's a bypass cap may be required depending on your tastes and system. However I agree its always best to go with a bypass whenever possible.

To be honest I was very sceptical applying bypass caps to the FRM ... but I cannot deny the results. I am sure there are endless combinations of dynamic flavors available to the modder depending on how you configure this FRM array. It just goes to show you power delivery to the DAC chips is simply another way of tuning your "Chameleon Amp."

Tuning the "Chameleon DAC" is a whole nuther matter. There are delicate issues at play and you have a better chance of screwing things up rather than lowering jitter. The FIM mod is not for everyone, Rhodes 74HC04 Mod is delicate ... as was the DIR9001 Mod on the Valab. TeraDak has now implemented the 74HC04 mod but understandably not the FIM or DIR9001. Things are in play on the digital side beyond the scope of this thread. You must thread lightly on this side of the fence!
The reason behind the bypass caps being a potentially bad thing is this: audience : capacitors : auricap. Multiple time constants. Note that the link specifies "in the signal path". This goes to both points, using them in power supplies and not using them in the signal path. Yes, some caps sound better with bypasses. This is due to a lack of clarity and evenness from top to bottom in the total frequency response. If it sounds better to someone who uses it, fine. It is showing the capacitor (main) is somewhat deficient in a certain area though (if the rest of the system is not the problem, a big IF). Being a single ended guy and a solid conductor guy, it is a really bad idea to me to slice up the signal and then put it back together again. Multiple caps do this.
One last thing: I know it is just lame semantics but they are not FIM and FRM mods. The "M" stands for "mod". It's like someone on a boat saying "we're going 25 knots per hour". A knot is a nautical mile per hour. Just (an old sailor) saying.
post #674 of 1144

Exposed legs picking up RF (not at the beach)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Allen View Post
Pat- I wrapped the long leads of the Vishay tightly around the short Blackgate leads and soldered them down. Next I soldered the remaining legs of the Vishay down to the Wima's.

So no I am not paranoid of long legs picking up stray RF if that is what you are asking.

Sounds great!
For those using the original DAC box the chances of picking up RF inside the box on the analog side are very minimal. Although the box may act as an antennae it is grounded so it acts as a shield. Try lifting the ground on an interconnect and you may see what I mean if yours does not have a bunch of insulation around it. Please remember that antennae must have a certain length to operate properly as well. 3/4" is not going to pick up much.
Regarding the digital side; I defer to the knowledgeable digital guys there.
post #675 of 1144
Hi driguy, thanks for those points for consideration!

Bill was saying earlier that you are using 2 pairs of duelands in the dac and pre-amp http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f7/cha...ml#post6489984

I was wondering why you chose to double the caps up, and not just use caps in one or the other. The reason I am asking I because I am considering trying the duelands myself after all the good vibes from your good self and others about them, but it gets pricey and I am wondering if I can get away with having no caps in say the amp, and rely on the just the one pair between the dac and amp?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Dedicated Source Components
Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Dedicated Source Components › Chameleon DAC listening and modifications