or Connect
Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Dedicated Source Components › Chameleon DAC listening and modifications
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Chameleon DAC listening and modifications - Page 43

post #631 of 1144

The TeraDak Black Chameleon

Here are pictures of the new Black Chameleon. As always TeraDak continues to add new upgrades based on forum suggestions and their own R&D.

Picasa Web Albums - Bill - Black Chameleon
post #632 of 1144

positively cap P**n

Great looking caps there Bill, thanks for your update, lets us know about the Cu flat Jupiter as well, lots of choices here.

I see you did the 74hc04 MOD. Or did that come stock?

Those of us who did added a couple of resistors to avoid reflections between the USB, Spidf receiver and the XO.

There should be two 47R resistors between the XO and the S/PDIF and USB receiver.

The possible reflections will introduce jitter.
Easiest thing to do is to remove the connections between pins 3&4 and 10&11 and put the two resistors there.

Here is Rhodes54 diagram, Picasa Web Albums - therealrhodes54

I did the resistor update though I did not myself hear any problems without it. Oh and you can remove and bypass those 3 resistors on the top right as you can see from my pic.

Though if this is Teradaks new stock version then perhaps nothing needs doing.

And some pics of the implementaion on my dac, and the Visay-Rodenstein. I used 0.01 and there was just enough space, the 0.1 size you can see on the input board, much bigger still.
LL
LL
post #633 of 1144
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wood View Post
Those dac stock smd's are ok, but proved to be a bit of a bottleneck to the other mods, replacing them (with good caps) let a lot more through. At some point will try .1 bg nx here as well as they have a different flavour to the 1837 (please dont't use Wimas here anybody). The TDA decoupling caps are as critcal as the ouput coupling caps, to a lesser extent the digital board, I've found.
well thats kinda weird, I would agree that these are critical, guess wimas just dont mix sound wise, but I cant see BG being better as they just dont perform as well as films or ceramics. I would go for sanyo oscon well before BG here, but if going all out I would pick a nice ebay teflon, perhaps even a mundorf Mlytic.

Quote:
Love the Jupiters I am using, but if you find the Duelands even better, well, thats it next on my list, along with AN TX, look forward to your findings on the new flat Jupiters as well (and your blog).
seriously guys, you gotta check out these VCAP CuTF, seriously good, even for a round cap i'm afraid I havent came up with the same results as you bill, I love the duelunds, but I think it has very little to do with them being flat, moreso to do with them being made from organic type materials perhaps.


Quote:
Qusp, I saw you were selling some spare Dueland's on another forum, missed that sale, some lucky b*****d got a bargin there!
indeed I did, had 2 extra that werent going to use and I found myself looking for excuses to build things to use them when i'm using very few caps in the signal path these days. soon as I reduced the price (needed funds in a hurry for another endeavor) they were gone in an instant. so they should too, 2 for the price of 1 for as new unused VSF copper was a deal of the century

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Allen View Post
Thanks qusp and Skibum for chiming in on the Dueland VSF caps, yes they are most definitely not just for speaker crossovers. In fact Tony (Driguy) has just put a pair of 400V VSF couplers inside his custom 26 Tube CCS preamp. He now has them in both his 26 Pre and Chameleon DAC, he also reports outstanding results.
dont worry, for some reason everyone just assumes its a G

great caps for sure, not as good as no cap tho, next time I find a need for a coupling caps (might be a while) I might give them a go, but i'm pretty happy with the duelund copper/VCAP CuTF combination, if I try another cap its likely to be duelund CAST of some sort, making some class D active monitors shortly after i'm done with the current run of projects and if I wasnt going active XO, I might give them a go in there.
post #634 of 1144
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wood View Post
Great looking caps there Bill, thanks for your update, lets us know about the Cu flat Jupiter as well, lots of choices here.

I see you did the 74hc04 MOD. Or did that come stock?

Those of us who did added a couple of resistors to avoid reflections between the USB, Spidf receiver and the XO.

There should be two 47R resistors between the XO and the S/PDIF and USB receiver.

The possible reflections will introduce jitter.
Easiest thing to do is to remove the connections between pins 3&4 and 10&11 and put the two resistors there.

Here is Rhodes54 diagram, Picasa Web Albums - therealrhodes54

I did the resistor update though I did not myself hear any problems without it. Oh and you can remove and bypass those 3 resistors on the top right as you can see from my pic.

Though if this is Teradaks new stock version then perhaps nothing needs doing.

And some pics of the implementaion on my dac, and the Visay-Rodenstein. I used 0.01 and there was just enough space, the 0.1 size you can see on the input board, much bigger still.
The pictures of my Chameleon Black is in stock form from TeraDak, no mods from me. Like I said they do make changes based on the forum support and if the Valab is any indication this process is far from over.

Yes indeed I do want to put in those pretty blue .01uf caps if for nothing just for how they look. Seriously, thanks Woody for pioneering this mod. Like you said I expect this to be major sound enhancer. Nice Job.
post #635 of 1144
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wood View Post
Great looking caps there Bill, thanks for your update, lets us know about the Cu flat Jupiter as well, lots of choices here.

I see you did the 74hc04 MOD. Or did that come stock?

Those of us who did added a couple of resistors to avoid reflections between the USB, Spidf receiver and the XO.

There should be two 47R resistors between the XO and the S/PDIF and USB receiver.

The possible reflections will introduce jitter.
Easiest thing to do is to remove the connections between pins 3&4 and 10&11 and put the two resistors there.

Here is Rhodes54 diagram, Picasa Web Albums - therealrhodes54

I did the resistor update though I did not myself hear any problems without it. Oh and you can remove and bypass those 3 resistors on the top right as you can see from my pic..
I just got my 47r SMD resistors in. 0805 size resistors fit exactly between the legs which now have been shorted. I will upload a picture tonight.

You are right: The three other resistors should all be removed and bypassed.
One thing: The diagram is correct, my pictures are not yet! Will change that soon
post #636 of 1144
Quote:
Originally Posted by qusp View Post
well thats kinda weird, I would agree that these are critical, guess wimas just dont mix sound wise, but I cant see BG being better as they just dont perform as well as films or ceramics. I would go for sanyo oscon well before BG here, but if going all out I would pick a nice ebay teflon, perhaps even a mundorf Mlytic.
Yea I am with qusp on this one (with a Q) I would stick with the films. No electrolytic's here. Nugent actually suggests higher quality surface mount caps. I will see if i can needle a brand name out of him. Installing those blue Vishay's looks like a real pain unless you do them before the Blackgate's go in... but I sure do like how they look!

Quote:
Originally Posted by qusp View Post
seriously guys, you gottta check out these VCAP CuTF, seriously good, even for a round cap i'm afraid I havent came up with the same results as you bill, I love the duelunds, but I think it has very little to do with them being flat, moreso to do with them being made from organic type materials perhaps.
I pretty much like everything that Chis VanHaus sells including the V-Caps and I am positive the new copper teflon's are another leap forward in signal transfer. However when passing a full range signal round is round ... is sounds round. This is actually a pretty big discovery and I encourage you to re-evaluate you position by further research, don't box yourself in. Now its always possible this effect is subtle in your rig for whatever reason. In my system it is clearly evident, this is not a small difference. With 100db open baffles this is blown up like a microscope, the soundstage takes on a completely different presentation with the flat caps, much like proper output transformers. Speaking with Chris Young there are no differences in construction material between the orange Jupiter's and the new vintage one except they are flat wound. I encourage any of you with Jupiter's to take the Pepsi challenge and try these new flat ones.

Now if we could encourage Mr. VanHaus to build some flat copper teflon's the superior dielectric would probably set yet another benchmark. I just wish every hobbyist, manufacture (and engineer) was as open to new ideas as TeraDak is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by qusp View Post
great caps for sure, not as good as no cap tho, next time I find a need for a coupling caps (might be a while) I might give them a go, but i'm pretty happy with the duelund copper/VCAP CuTF combination, if I try another cap its likely to be duelund CAST of some sort, making some class D active monitors shortly after i'm done with the current run of projects and if I wasnt going active XO, I might give them a go in there.
Ok, the cast Duelands sure do look round to me but the internal construction may still be flat wound or maybe something even more exotic. However we are now approaching silver transformer land pricing. At what point do we say stop and cry ... Uncle! Lunar landscape soundstages aside, it sure is exciting that the lowly capacitor is now maturing into transformer like sound in coupling applications with the advent of the "new" Duelands, Jupiters & V-Caps. The advantage being even the layman hobbyist can easily experiment and decide for himself.
post #637 of 1144

Transformer coupling your Chameleon DAC

For those of you adventurous enough to consider proper transformer coupling with the Chameleon. Here are a couple links to spin you into the right circle.

:: View topic - Another DAC question, TDA1541 this time.

:: View topic - OT for multiple parallel TDA1543's

And for you real SET/Transformer addicts here is nice "fix" for you. My friends Jeffery Jackson & Dave Slagle spin a nice cryptic web of inside knowledge.

hifi heroin blog.
post #638 of 1144
Thread Starter 

two times

I tried it.
Using 175R resistors going into the primary and nothing on the secondary.
Only distortion and low low output.

I don't want to risk the TXs /w DC so words on practical application would be helpful. Already tried the theorectical.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Allen View Post
For those of you adventurous enough to consider proper transformer coupling with the Chameleon. Here are a couple links to spin you into the right circle.

:: View topic - Another DAC question, TDA1541 this time.

:: View topic - OT for multiple parallel TDA1543's

And for you real SET/Transformer addicts here is nice "fix" for you. My friends Jeffery Jackson & Dave Slagle spin a nice cryptic web of inside knowledge.

hifi heroin blog.
post #639 of 1144
Damn Pat, I was hoping I would get you to bite harder than that on the lure.

You are the only one around here who as even made an attempt to try transformer coupling with the Valab or Chameleon DAC's. I am sure if you contact Dave Slagle he could guide you to a proper transformer solution. (Tell him I sent you and that when you guys figure out the solution ... I want mine wound with silver wire).

Once again I look to the experts with complexities like this.
post #640 of 1144
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Allen View Post
Yea I am with qusp on this one (with a Q) I would stick with the films. No electrolytic's here. Nugent actually suggests higher quality surface mount caps. I will see if i can needle a brand name out of him. Installing those blue Vishay's looks like a real pain unless you do them before the Blackgate's go in... but I sure do like how they look!


Ok, quys, you talked me out of trying the bg for small values (so much wanted to play with those little cute nx's) but heh put the money towards some flat caps instead.

Yes its a bit of a pain putting those decoupling caps in, had to take out 2 rows of BG's first, and put them back, lifted a trace in the process, can't get a piece paper inbetween them now. If Steve does give you a hot tip on smd caps please let us know Bill, as I don't have room on the digital board for anymore 0.1 vishay. Also it would be damn useful to know of a good smd cap!
post #641 of 1144
Thread Starter 

bite me

Allright.
I will reach out to Slagle.
Hell, though, I really like the way my Mundorf's sound behind the CIneMag TXs. Don't start on those Dueland's with me. $$$$$$$$$$$$
And I had a methondology for picking the Mundorf's. I wanted a thinner sound gonig through those phat TXs. And I know, I know, all tuning here.

Those flat Jupiters ... how much?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Allen View Post
Damn Pat, I was hoping I would get you to bite harder than that on the lure.

You are the only one around here who as even made an attempt to try transformer coupling with the Valab or Chameleon DAC's. I am sure if you contact Dave Slagle he could guide you to a proper transformer solution. (Tell him I sent you and that when you guys figure out the solution ... I want mine wound with silver wire).

Once again I look to the experts with complexities like this.
post #642 of 1144
Quote:
Originally Posted by PatOMalley View Post

Those flat Jupiters ... how much?
Yes how much and with 20% discount?

Anbody got the energy to recycle there valab dac board and boost the chameleon to 24 dacs?
post #643 of 1144
Woody you are a sick puppy, I was already thinking the same thing after reading Dave's transformer comments. This is right up your alley.

The biggest issue I see is the Chameleon's voltage termination of the I2S bus. While this may not be the best technical solution it may be prove to be the most forgiving when adding and removing DAC chips. Give it a shot and let us know how deep the rabbit holes goes.

The 3.3uf flat Jupiter's are running $90 each I believe. Right around $150 a pair with shipping. The VSF Dueland's will cost you twice that price. The Cast Duelands & CuTF V-Caps are one of those ... if you got to ask the price ...

Pat --- Tranies ... Tranies ... Tranies!
post #644 of 1144
Could be worth a shot, the vs 2.1 dac board looks wired the same as the Chameleon. The IV would have to be 117r. Not sure the DC30 would not run out of juice though.

Hmm Tempting......

Will I ever get to just listen to this damned dac ?
post #645 of 1144
Thread Starter 

reality check

Just to get a point in that my Chameleon DAC has exceeded all expectations at this point. It closely rivals my analog 'rig'. Animated, flowing, human, giving up the "ooh yeah."

No apologies, I love the way the thing sounds now. There may be higher steps on this ladder but I am feeling levels of satisfaction..now.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Dedicated Source Components
Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Dedicated Source Components › Chameleon DAC listening and modifications