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What Steven Wilson thinks about iPods & co

post #1 of 6
Thread Starter 
Hey there!

Did anyone of you see these videos he put out at the same time as his debut solo album? If so, what do you think about them?

I read this interview and I was kinda surprised. Well, I have to say that I really appreciate this man's work, but I think he exaggerates about lossy audio compression.

For instance, he said this:
Quote:
I’m not trying to say that the iPod is inherently bad. There are some great things about iPods and download culture. The fact that people are arguably listening to more music than ever now, and probably more wide ranging in terms of what they’re listening to than before. And the convenience aspect is wonderful. But what concerned me is that no one was really raising the problems of iPods. There are some really serious issues for me. I can break it down into three basic categories.

Number one, the quality issue. I really wonder if people realize what **** they are listening to when they listen to an MP3. The best analogy I can come up with is the idea that, if you took someone to see a beautiful painting in an Art Gallery, and you stood them in front of the painting so they could see the texture of the paint, the colors coming off the canvas, the power and the depth, of that masterpiece, and then you took them out of the Art Gallery and you showed them a photocopy of the same painting. Now, the thing is, you can still appreciate, even from the photocopy, that it’s a masterpiece. It’s the same with an MP3, you can still appreciate it’s a great piece of music and you can still enjoy it, but the quality of experience is so much lower. So much lower.
after he was asked this question:
Quote:
Can you encapsulate the statement you’re making against “download culture”, of which the iPod is the ultimate symbol?
I'm sure I don't lecture you guys here, but I still feel like writing this. Mathematically, he's completely right. There is a lot of information lost, but this is not just random information, this is information that's more or less useless anyway. If encoded the right way, mp3 (and some other lossy compression standards like vorbis, aac and musepack) are quite good and not far from the original source, in my opinion. Or am I wrong? Honestly, I never listened to lossy compressed music through studio monitors or 1000+ bucks headphone equipment, but I still think it's not far from the truth that lossy compression isn't SO bad today. Sure, I still prefer physical discs and lossless sources, just for the psychological aspect. It feels like listening to the "real thing", not just an interpretation a piece of software made. However, when I did some ABX tests for the first time, I was quite disappointed when I realized that I couldn't tell that much of a difference at first ... Took quite some time until I knew what to listen for to distinguish between lossless and lossy, and sometimes I still have no clue what is what.

So what do you think about his videos and statements? More a gag, or is he right about this? Are most people really listening to **** these days?
post #2 of 6
For me, everything depends on the quality of the recording. Most recordings frankly aren't that great, and the highest bitrate available for mp3, WMA, OGG, pick your format really, are fine.

If on the other hand you have a truly reference grade recording, using lossy compression is doing it a disservice. I would argue that using 16/44 in FLAC is doing it a disservice. Give me the resolution that was used in the studio, say 24/176.
post #3 of 6
His comments are exaggerated.. I'm sure he would be blown away by the SQ of the JH13s straight out of an iPod.
post #4 of 6
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveBSC View Post
If on the other hand you have a truly reference grade recording, using lossy compression is doing it a disservice. I would argue that using 16/44 in FLAC is doing it a disservice. Give me the resolution that was used in the studio, say 24/176.
having a lot of high quality- near reference grade- recordings, I can say that FLAC is the only way to go. I do listen to music on my iPhone at 320kbps MP3, and it is acceptable. However, there are albums I have that I do not think I could listen to on my iPhone (almost all of them being classical albums).

I would believe, however, that this has more to do with equipment than whatever compression. I have Marantz SA826->Gilmore Lite->HD600s (with Blue Dragon) for my home and with my iPhone I listen through the headphone-out, un-amped with Sennheiser MX 160s..
post #5 of 6
Quote:
Number one, the quality issue. I really wonder if people realize what **** they are listening to when they listen to an MP3.
Change MP3 to iBuds and change photocopy to a sketch by a 4 year old.

THAT is the problem with iPods for the uneducated music listening masses.

It is really sad that a piece of gear like an iPod comes with those pieces of crap. And people, not knowing better, use them.

As for MP3, I have failed to ABX some tracks at lame v2 (anything lower than 192 is usually easily discerned) but some tracks I have ABX at v0/320 with repeated success. So I would have to agree the benefits of lossless is somewhat dependent on the quality of the original recording.
post #6 of 6
The LAME guys have spent years perfecting VBR to an amazing degree, so his comments don't surprise me. I think that lossy music is more noticeable with acoustic music rather than synthesised as there is a lot more texture, in a manner of speaking, in the way the instruments sound, especially when you're used to listening with high-end gear to high quality recordings. So, overall, it depends what one is listening to probably more so than what gear one is using for how much it will end up mattering, as well I guess how "seriously" one listens, if that makes any sense.
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