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What to build? DAC, amp, power supply?

post #1 of 18
Thread Starter 
I'd like to do some upgrading to my setup, and I've been planning some builds that I could do in the summer. I've been mainly looking at the AMB designs, namely the Gamma1, the CK2III, the M3, and the Sigma11.

Too long; won't read: CK2III or M3.

DAC: I'm not looking for anything much more than the Gamma1. I don't think power is going to be a concern here, since I'll most likely be using USB. I'm not sure I want to go to a Gamma2, but it seems simple enough to bypass the upsampler, skip the digital outputs, and stick with the WM8740 for analogue output.

A full Gamma1 would cost me $100 CAD, and I haven't done a BOM for the lite or the Gamma2.

Is there anything else I should consider?

Amplifiers: What to do? There's plenty of amplifier designs, but for whatever reason, I've been looking at the M3 and CK2III.

As far as I can tell, the CK2III differs in that it has the power supply on board, and that sinking options are different. The M3 I'd have to build a power supply for, but I could also do the same for the CK2III. Both builds come out to about the same price. Is one any better in any area (build ease, power, sound, enclosures) than the other? Should I just build the M3 because it's more popular?

Will I get a popping noise when I turn on the amp? Will I get a "boom-fwooooooooosh" noise when I turn it off? I'd like the boom-fwooooooosh that my D2 gets.

Power supplies: I'm no EE. Let's get that straight. But I'm pretty sure something like a TREAD isn't ideal to handle the M3 or CK2III. I mean, it's small. Am I wrong? Should I stop poking around inside Seasonic power supplies?

If I've got my head on right, the power supply receives AC voltage through those lovely, common, 18AWG power cords that computers use, into those potentially expensive IEC power inlets (not sure what they're called, that's just what it says on the BOM), goes to the power supply which does its thing to turn it into DC voltage, and then does the filtering and whatnot to turn it into the correct voltage. The fuse protects against surges, and something in the power supply should protect it against extreme current draw, correct?

I'm not sure how much a Sigma11 would cost. $50? $70? I haven't done a BOM yet.

I couldn't find any of the recommended toroidal transformers on Mouser, so I had a go at it, and picked out this: VPT36-690 Triad Magnetics Transformers Any good?

Enclosures: I'm thinking of running the DAC open box, at first anyways. I haven't got the necessary tools to do panel work, and I'm pretty sure a place like Front Panel Express or a local shop would charge an arm, a leg, and a kidney to do laser cutting (and more for engraving or silk screening, I'd imagine). I'll put it off till later.

But when I do get a case, how do I get the standoffs into the case? Do I just tap the bottom panel in the correct places and put in some standoffs?

I'd like to do something like MisterX's CK2III that you can see in the AMB gallery. Brushed alu front panel, black chassis with heat vents. It gives me a hard on, if you don't mind me saying. Does having the power supply in the same case present any problems as long as I keep everything shielded?

I'm planning on using the Hammond 1455T2202 for the amplifiers (hopefully it's wide enough) and the Box Enclosures B2-080 for the DAC.

(Why can't I find the knobs I like?)

Build order: I'm thinking of doing the DAC first. It's cheapest, and my headphones are all low impedance, high sensitivity. I'm just worried about some of those chips. With through hole soldering, I'm all "how hard can it be?" (Clarksonius, 300 BC). But those chips are small, and look easy to heat kill. Do I need to sink the chips when working with them? How do I go about doing that?

The amplifiers will come later, when they're needed/I have time.


So, all in all, how bad is my plan?
post #2 of 18
Well for the SMB chip soldering, AMB has great tips and I believe a link to a pretty good video on how to do it. Follow that. You do not need to heat sink them while soldering, just dont put to much heat on them. The iron is only in contact for very short periods so should not get the chip hot at all.

A Sigma 11 build will cost more than $100, I forget how much I spent on the BOM for mine but it was more than a $100. I cased my M3 with the Sigma11 so I saved on casing.

As for standoffs you basically just figure out your layout and mark it, drill the holes and tap them for your standoffs. That is pretty easy, the hard part of casing is drilling the panel holes and IEC holes, course you can get FPE to do that.

If you are building a Gamma1 the casing is super simple, you just get the panels from AMB site and slide the board in and BOOM done.
post #3 of 18
Thread Starter 
$100, eh? Seems like I'll be putting off an amp for a while yet. Guess I'll just use my D2 instead (if I even need it).

I forgot to mention that I was planning on using the Box Enclosures case for the Gamma1. It's Gamma2 compatible and it just plain looks better. The downside is that I'd have to order it from Allied Electronics (instead of all Mouser), the panels are $48 from AMB (probably a bargain though, I'd imagine), and I'll probably end up using it with the side panels off.

I saw the video linked on the AMB site. It blows my mind.
post #4 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ntropic View Post
$100, eh? Seems like I'll be putting off an amp for a while yet. Guess I'll just use my D2 instead (if I even need it).

I forgot to mention that I was planning on using the Box Enclosures case for the Gamma1. It's Gamma2 compatible and it just plain looks better. The downside is that I'd have to order it from Allied Electronics (instead of all Mouser), the panels are $48 from AMB (probably a bargain though, I'd imagine), and I'll probably end up using it with the side panels off.

I saw the video linked on the AMB site. It blows my mind.
I was actually going to recommend you use the Box Enclosure and NOT separate the boards so that WHEN you upgrade it to a Gamma2 it will be easier . If you go this route keep in mind you will need to build a cable to connect the "2" boards together, not a big deal just something to keep in mind. A nice way to build the cable would be to order the Gamma2 board and just populate the headers, course if you go to that much trouble might as well put a few chips and be done with it .

What is your budget for the Amp? Again I did not keep good track of my expenses building my M3/sigma11 but I am pretty sure it cost me over $300 total.
post #5 of 18
Thread Starter 
Ideally? Around $300; the same you'd pay for a LD Mk3. The goal here is to pay the same as you would for consumer equipment, but get much, much more out of it.

What're my power supply alternatives to the Sigma11 (STEPS, TREAD, ???)? I'm not planning to drive speakers (although I've been eyeing a pair of ELT525s), so I imagine current draw to be pretty low, relatively.
post #6 of 18
It would be quite difficult to fit an M^3 with power supply, transformer and chassis into $300. If you have to stick to that budget, just build a TREAD, make sure it has a good heatsink.
post #7 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ntropic View Post
Ideally? Around $300; the same you'd pay for a LD Mk3. The goal here is to pay the same as you would for consumer equipment, but get much, much more out of it.

What're my power supply alternatives to the Sigma11 (STEPS, TREAD, ???)? I'm not planning to drive speakers (although I've been eyeing a pair of ELT525s), so I imagine current draw to be pretty low, relatively.
Well generally I tell people that DIY is not about saving money. It is cool that it is possible to save money, but if that is your primary goal you most likely will fail at that. DIY is about:
1. Doing it yourself because you enjoy just that.
2. To learn
3. So you can customize it to your requirements.
4. So you know exactly what you have.
5. Maybe save a buck.

If this is your first DIY, do you have the tools? Tools can be a decent investment that you need to take into account.

If $300 is your upper limit then I would probably not build an M3. Also LD Mk3 is a tube amp, kinda weird to compare it with SS amps, I know you are not comparing directly but still if you want a tube amp you should get/build a tube amp not a SS.
post #8 of 18
Thread Starter 
Why not compare a tube amp to a solid state? They're both amplifiers, and in this case, they can both be in the same price class. I don't see it as much more than that.

Quote:
It is cool that it is possible to save money, but if that is your primary goal you most likely will fail at that. DIY is about:
1. Doing it yourself because you enjoy just that. Yes.
2. To learn I believe that's inherent with DIY
3. So you can customize it to your requirements. Yes.
4. So you know exactly what you have. Yes.
5. Maybe save a buck. Exactly that.
I build my own computers for the same reasons. It's a mixture of "it sucks less" and "it saves me money".

Tools: Iron, multimeter, solder braid, flux, wire cutter. That's about it, right? If so, I've got it all.

If the M3 is going to cost as much as it seems like it's going to cost, I guess a CK2III is more budget orientated. How does that transformer I linked to on Mouser look though?
post #9 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ntropic View Post
Why not compare a tube amp to a solid state? They're both amplifiers, and in this case, they can both be in the same price class. I don't see it as much more than that.
A tube amp is just a different beast than a SS amp. Yes the end goal is more or less the same, but if one wants a tube amp they usually want it because it provides something for them they can not get from a SS. Course the inverse is true. Which is why I made my statement.


The CK2III is probably a better amp in that price range for you. Not sure the tranfo you linked to would work. The CK2III calls for a 15V+15V the one you link to is a 18V+18V. The one in the parts list is on Digikey Digi-Key - TE62033-ND (Manufacturer - 62033)
post #10 of 18
Doing the case work is where you will need tools you probably don't have yet.

I'm convinced there's a conspiracy between switch manufacturers and drill bit manufacturers to make your life as difficult as possible with all the oddball sizes and extremely tight tolerances. Nothing is 3/4, 1/2 or 5/8. This jack is a perfect example of the misery awaiting hapless DIY'ers unprepared for the exactitude required.

NJ3FP6C-BAG Neutrik Phone Connectors



You'll need calipers to measure with, taps to make threads with, hot glue guns, etc, etc.
post #11 of 18
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by m1abrams View Post
The CK2III calls for a 15V+15V the one you link to is a 18V+18V. The one in the parts list is on Digikey Digi-Key - TE62033-ND (Manufacturer - 62033)
Ideally, I'd order from Mouser. It seems they're cheaper across the board, and there's only a few parts that Digikey stocks that Mouser doesn't. Namely, a 15V+15V transformer. Seems I'll end up needing to order some parts from Digikey.
post #12 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ntropic View Post
Ideally, I'd order from Mouser. It seems they're cheaper across the board, and there's only a few parts that Digikey stocks that Mouser doesn't. Namely, a 15V+15V transformer. Seems I'll end up needing to order some parts from Digikey.
I have yet to be able to get everything from just mouser or digikey. I usually try to get most of my stuff from mouser just cause I like there ordering system better then get the other items from digikey.
post #13 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ntropic View Post
Ideally, I'd order from Mouser. It seems they're cheaper across the board, and there's only a few parts that Digikey stocks that Mouser doesn't. Namely, a 15V+15V transformer. Seems I'll end up needing to order some parts from Digikey.
For a different project I was looking for a cheap transformer as well and eventually settled with Antek: Antek - Your reliable source of transformers, power supplies, and more. They cost roughly $10 plus $10 for shipping. You may as well get a couple for future projects to save on shipping costs.
post #14 of 18
Have you considered a hybrid? The CTH is a great little amp, with tons of tube options. The power supply is built in, except for a 24V AC wall wart, and you could easily build it for $200. Go with the plastic end panel version of the hammond enclosure(s) it fits in and you could get away with doing the casing with a basic drill/bit set. Runeight (Cavalli Audio) has a very thorough web page for CTH construction.
post #15 of 18
Thread Starter 
I'm not exactly interested in anything involving tubes (the LD Mk3 was an example) on account of having to acquire those tubes, and potentially developing a tube rolling addiction/fetish. It looks like all of the Cavalli designs are hybrid amps except for the CK2III. Is there any advantages to having a hybrid design? How does a hybrid design work anyways?
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