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Cryo cables... hype or real? - Page 4  

post #46 of 69
'legitimate'?

that implies there's consensus on this 'process'.

I doubt it is even this far...

pseudo science, my friend. there's no 'correct' way to apply junk science. its always junk.
post #47 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raez View Post
Considering cryo'd cables do the exact same thing as normal cable, and sound the same, that would imply some gear doesn't work well with cables. If that's the case, it's a big problem.
That's funny.
post #48 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by Koyaan I. Sqatsi View Post
If a $10,000 component sounds only as good as a $3,000 component to whom though?

You can have five people listen to the same component and it's not impossible to get five vastly different assessments of it.
Some companies slap arbitrary prices on their gear and cables. If a $10,000 component only has $1,000 of parts inside, it is way overpriced. If a $10,000 component has $3,000 - $4,000 worth of parts inside, it is a fair price taking into account R&D, overhead and profit.

Likewise, there are cable manufacturers here that sell a cable for $300 that has only $15-$20 worth of parts, no R&D and maybe 1 - 2 hours labor. To me, that is unreasonable. But you also have honorable cable guys who sell a cable for $900 that has $300 worth of parts in it, lots of R&D and 15 - 20 hours of labor to make it. In that context, $900 is very reasonable considering they aren't making a killing on labor.
post #49 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by bikeboy999 View Post
If cryo'd parts were BS would some companies that have high pedigree for audio deal only with cryo's parts? Ed Meitner appears to have quite the background for audio, and his own cables are cryo'd. Are people calling him/his company a scam artist?
Maybe he's simply human like everyone else.

As has been well established for decades, and as such things as frozen photographs and teleportation tweaks amply demonstrate, subjectively perceiving differences even when there are no actual physical differences is not uncommon and is just part and parcel of being human.

Though reading his piece, "Cryogenics: the cold, hard facts" and the other bits under "Technology," maybe he is a scam artist or a quack or a charlatan.

se
post #50 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by IPodPJ View Post
Some companies slap arbitrary prices on their gear and cables. If a $10,000 component only has $1,000 of parts inside, it is way overpriced. If a $10,000 component has $3,000 - $4,000 worth of parts inside, it is a fair price taking into account R&D, overhead and profit.

Likewise, there are cable manufacturers here that sell a cable for $300 that has only $15-$20 worth of parts, no R&D and maybe 1 - 2 hours labor. To me, that is unreasonable. But you also have honorable cable guys who sell a cable for $900 that has $300 worth of parts in it, lots of R&D and 15 - 20 hours of labor to make it. In that context, $900 is very reasonable considering they aren't making a killing on labor.
You're talking cost of materials now.

You originally said "But if you have a $10,000 component that sounds only as good as a $3,000 component..."

So I go back to my original question. If a $10,000 component sounds only as good as a $3,000 component to whom?

se
post #51 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by Koyaan I. Sqatsi View Post
You're talking cost of materials now.

You originally said "But if you have a $10,000 component that sounds only as good as a $3,000 component..."

So I go back to my original question. If a $10,000 component sounds only as good as a $3,000 component to whom?

se
To the experienced listener. And parts will make a difference especially in areas like detail. I have never heard a balanced DAC (2 stereo DAC chips) reveal detail like a dual-differential DAC (8 chips) does. That's where parts cost comes into play. More chips, higher cost.
post #52 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raez View Post
I disagree. While most of the time reviewers here are not directly paid (if they ever are), it is very common that they are allowed to keep the gear, assuming their review is positive. That said, I trust very few official reviews here.
x2. This needs to be addressed. There's too many glowing reviews and followups, as if the reviewer is championing the success of the product.
post #53 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by bikeboy999 View Post
If cryo'd parts were BS would some companies that have high pedigree for audio deal only with cryo's parts? Ed Meitner appears to have quite the background for audio, and his own cables are cryo'd. Are people calling him/his company a scam artist?

B
In some ways, yes I am. He uses cryo parts because to all of the uninformed, novice audiophiles out there, they hear the word cryo and fall head-over-heels. It's a marketing pitch, no more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by linuxworks View Post
'legitimate'?

that implies there's consensus on this 'process'.

I doubt it is even this far...

pseudo science, my friend. there's no 'correct' way to apply junk science. its always junk.
Agreed!

Quote:
Originally Posted by IPodPJ View Post
That's funny.
If that's not a sarcastic comment, thank you!

Quote:
Originally Posted by IPodPJ View Post
Some companies slap arbitrary prices on their gear and cables. If a $10,000 component only has $1,000 of parts inside, it is way overpriced. If a $10,000 component has $3,000 - $4,000 worth of parts inside, it is a fair price taking into account R&D, overhead and profit.

Likewise, there are cable manufacturers here that sell a cable for $300 that has only $15-$20 worth of parts, no R&D and maybe 1 - 2 hours labor. To me, that is unreasonable. But you also have honorable cable guys who sell a cable for $900 that has $300 worth of parts in it, lots of R&D and 15 - 20 hours of labor to make it. In that context, $900 is very reasonable considering they aren't making a killing on labor.
Ah, but you see, putting $300 of parts into a cable is absolute nonsense in the first place, and is absolutely unheard of. Maybe you should read the thread ( http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f21/my...er-3-a-293165/) where the guy cut open his $300 Virtual Dynamics power cable, and found $15 worth of parts. Well, that's EXTREMELY high build cost for a cable, and it's still marked up beyond Jesus. AND, considering most every "high-end cable manufacturer" I've seen makes claims about the mythical sound altering capabilities of their absurdly priced cables, I consider none of them 'honorable'. Smart maybe, because they know idiots will buy it, but not honorable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IPodPJ View Post
To the experienced listener. And parts will make a difference especially in areas like detail. I have never heard a balanced DAC (2 stereo DAC chips) reveal detail like a dual-differential DAC (8 chips) does. That's where parts cost comes into play. More chips, higher cost.
With DACs, that's really not true. DAC chips are extremely cheap; in bulk they cost companies $5-7 a piece. It's the implementation that drives up the price, and really what makes one DAC better than the other.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sohels View Post
x2. This needs to be addressed. There's too many glowing reviews and followups, as if the reviewer is championing the success of the product.
Yep.
post #54 of 69
theirs way much cable worry on this forum if you don't want a cryoed cable don't buy one, if you do buy one. personally i would never buy a cable from anyone can make my own for cheaper and with better stuff or just as good wire.
post #55 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by IPodPJ View Post
To the experienced listener.
That rather presupposes that every so-called "experienced listener" would give it the same assessment.

se
post #56 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raez View Post
If that's not a sarcastic comment, thank you!
Not sarcastic. I thought it was funny.


Quote:
Ah, but you see, putting $300 of parts into a cable is absolute nonsense in the first place, and is absolutely unheard of. Maybe you should read the thread ( http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f21/my...er-3-a-293165/) where the guy cut open his $300 Virtual Dynamics power cable, and found $15 worth of parts. Well, that's EXTREMELY high build cost for a cable, and it's still marked up beyond Jesus. AND, considering most every "high-end cable manufacturer" I've seen makes claims about the mythical sound altering capabilities of their absurdly priced cables, I consider none of them 'honorable'. Smart maybe, because they know idiots will buy it, but not honorable.
Putting $300 worth of parts in a cable is not unheard of at all, especially when you take into account the connectors. My headphone cable fits into this category, and is what I was using as an example. It is not nonsense and if you talk to Peter at Double Helix Cables he will tell you exactly what goes into the 8 layers of the cable. I have tried many headphone cables and this one surpasses all of them by a long shot. Before I even knew what was in it, I borrowed his personal one and was so blown away with it that I had to have one.

I really wish you guys would stop exaggerating about that VD cable that his cat supposedly took apart. Some of you have said it was a $1000 cable, now you're saying it was a $300 cable. No, it is not. The VD Power 3 is a $99 cable. At the time of the incident it was $150 but they were also giving them away free as a promotion.

I agree with you about the ridiculous claims of the snake oil cable companies. Most of those people think that if they come up with all this pseudo-scientific mumbo jumbo it will create more appeal, and to the audiophile with tons of money to burn it does. It's a shame really. I never buy into any of that garbage. I listen to a product and I base my opinion on it's own merit, not what price it is or what marketing hype comes attached to it. My $24 BJC BNC cable outperforms any other digital cable I've tried.

Quote:
With DACs, that's really not true. DAC chips are extremely cheap; in bulk they cost companies $5-7 a piece. It's the implementation that drives up the price, and really what makes one DAC better than the other.
It depends what DAC chips you are talking about. The PCM1704U-K costs close to $40 a piece individually and a little less in larger quantities. Having 8 of them in a DAC costs about $300.
post #57 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by Koyaan I. Sqatsi View Post
That rather presupposes that every so-called "experienced listener" would give it the same assessment.

se
I'm not talking about personal preference, with regards to tone and coloration. I'm talking about the high level of detail that a DAC can provide and that can't be disputed -- either it's there or it's not, and you can compare that to other units.
post #58 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by IPodPJ View Post
I'm not talking about personal preference, with regards to tone and coloration.
Nor am I.

I'm speaking of individual assessments of tone and coloration, which can vary widely among individuals. What one may describe as "warm" another may well describe as "cool."

se
post #59 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by Koyaan I. Sqatsi View Post
Nor am I.

I'm speaking of individual assessments of tone and coloration, which can vary widely among individuals. What one may describe as "warm" another may well describe as "cool."

se
Regardless of semantics (individual assessments and personal preference are one in the same), I said NOT tone or coloration. Only detail.
post #60 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by IPodPJ View Post
Regardless of semantics (individual assessments and personal preference are one in the same), I said NOT tone or coloration. Only detail.
Call it whatever you want. When individuals are involved, whatever metric you care to reference will be susceptible to variations among individuals. That was the point.

se
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