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iPod, iMod, Rockbox, Lossless...

post #1 of 10
12/27/09 at 12:35pm
Thread Starter 
I know the title is a bit silly but I have a question which involves all of these things.

I recently bought a 5.5G iPod so I could install Rockbox and listen to lossless files. I installed it and ripped a few of my favourite CD's to FLAC using Fubar. The thing is that I can't tell the difference between FLAC and mp3 on my now Rockboxed 5.5G iPod. I tried listening to a song in mp3 and then FLAC and I could not decipher one little bit of difference in clarity or anything else. I'm using UE TripleFi 10's which are decent headphones so I doubt that's the problem.

So my question is, is it a waste of time listening to lossless files if you aren't running an amp/iMod/have a set of $1000+ headphones? Has anyone else had this problem? Am I doing something wrong?
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post #2 of 10
12/27/09 at 12:51pm
The primary difference between lossless and low bitrate music is that the higher frequencies are cut off and if that's not a factor then chances are you won't hear a difference regardless of how much you spend.

Laziness: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f4/can...ml#post6109489
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post #3 of 10
12/27/09 at 2:09pm
In a portable setting, even with the best PMP system I could put together (iMod+iQube+E530s), 320 MP3's and WAVs sound the same, since (as RedSky says) it's about the highs and I'm 60+ so there are no highs in music for me any more.

You rip to WAV (or more sensibly, FLAC) to preserve all the information on the CD you paid so much money for, to archive the bits (and with FLAC, to add useful tags and lossless compression). You choose this path to keep the future open. If storage constrains you (as it might) on a portable device, then use your WAVs or FLACs to make MP3, going with 320 or 256 MP3's, as you like. I use 320 when I make the MP3 myself, but of course I am forced to use 256 when I buy the MP3 directly from Amazon. (Apple fans will use other formats like Apple Lossless and maybe AAC etc. but the idea is the same).

At home, with perfect listening conditions and top notch grear, I prefer high res for sure, choosing SACDs and/or DVD-A's for almost all listening, even with my diminished ability to hear high notes. But that might be due to better mastering, not something inherent in the higher bitrates.

When I stick my iPod in a Wadia iTransport, I still can't hear a difference between WAV and MP3 for the same song, even with a world-class DAC and HP combo. That probably is my hearing, I bet better ears could hear a difference, and I think I will test this at some point ... but then a quick switch to the SACD version and I can hear an improvement!
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post #4 of 10
12/27/09 at 5:06pm
For a little while, I was all about lossless. With WMA lossless vs 192 WMA, I could hear another "layer" of music in lossless that I couldn't with 192. After moving on past the Zune, I got 4th gen iPods and Rockboxed them. It was FLAC only for a while, then I actually tried OGG Vorbis q -8 (VBR ~256), and I couldn't tell the difference between FLAC and that. Sometime during this, I upgraded from UHP336's to RE0's. Even with that dramatic upgrade, I still couldn't tell the difference. Except for one song, I can't tell the difference. Even with that, the highs seem slightly attenuated with the OGG file, but it's just barely noticeable. If you've got the space and high-end headphones, lossless might be worth it. Otherwise, high-bitrate VBR is pretty dang good too.
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post #5 of 10
12/27/09 at 9:19pm
difference between 320 and lossless is not that much to be worried about
worry more about the gear
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post #6 of 10
1/1/10 at 8:12pm
Depends on the song, what kind of things are playing in the song.
Also the resolution of your headphones. And how sensitive your ears are.

Quite often you will have a hard time telling if the MP3 is of sufficient quality (i.e above 192kbps VBR). But it really depends on many factors.
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post #7 of 10
1/1/10 at 8:25pm
I am a firm advocate in both lossless formats that I use (flac and alac), but on a portable setup with mid end gear, especially with no amp, then 320kbps is going to yield pretty much the same results. It could be the difference between 11MB and 75 MB on your DAP. The same thing in wav, could be 90MB.

Now, when you compare .mp3 bit rates, here, you can't cut yourself short. The difference between 128k and 320k, is like the difference between am radio and CD. Besides loss of highs, you get a 2 dimension soundstage, rather than 3, with a huge loss in depth and soundstage. You are getting 1/3 less the sampling rate of the sine wave. The same song in flac could be the equivalent of sampling the sine wave 1150 thousand bites per second.
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post #8 of 10
1/27/10 at 8:49pm
Yea man the difference between 320 kbs and WAV/FLAC isn't that great, and like I've read before (and believe now) to get to the point where you're going to hear those differences you are going to have to spend a lot more on your equipment than if you were to get full sized home gear.

I just rip my music to WAV and listen to that now but if storage keeps me in check, I'll rip to 320 and not worry about it because I've done tests myself with 320 and WAV both ripped from a cd on my portable setup (1G Touch, Good Lod, iBasso T4, PFE 112s (oh and I'm not saying my gear is amazing or anything)), and I could hear a difference but it was ONLY when I was in a completely isolated environment like my room.
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post #9 of 10
1/29/10 at 1:49pm
Just a suggestion.. Give it some time for your ears to get used to the new sound. Use FLAC exclusively for a few weeks and then go back to MP3s of the same songs.. if you still don't find a difference .. make a decision then..

Edit: I just tried testing the difference using my portable setup.. ipod->Rockbox->AD700 there is acutally a fullness and spaciousness to the FLAC files while the MP3s lack the dimension .. never mind .. i don't think i can explain it clearly .. dumb me . .

good luck.
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post #10 of 10
1/29/10 at 2:14pm
320 vs lossless, I can't tell a difference with both my home or portable. So I keep all my files as 320kbps on DAP but keep a copy of lossless on computer.

portable - iMod>iQube>JH13
home - iMod>Wadia>DacMagic (soon y2)>maxxed WA6>HD600/W5000
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