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10 Biggest Lies in Audio - Page 2

post #16 of 277
Quote:
Originally Posted by Koyaan I. Sqatsi View Post
That wouldn't be so bad as long as the DBT prohibition policy was accompanied by a policy also prohibiting the passing off of subjective experiences as objective reality.

se
Funny how only one of those is enforced...
post #17 of 277
THE biggest lie in Audio:

Not to trust your own ears.


Audio scepticists' tend to have "glass is always half-empty" mentality and concentrate on measurements and educating other people on the laws of physics instead of ever finding the ultimate joy that is actually listening and enjoying the MUSIC.
post #18 of 277
Quote:
Originally Posted by Koyaan I. Sqatsi View Post
That wouldn't be so bad as long as the DBT prohibition policy was accompanied by a policy also prohibiting the passing off of subjective experiences as objective reality.

se
X2 - The level of magical thinking on this forum is frankly dismaying, if I had a dollar for very time someone spoke about such and such being bright or dark or recessed or forward when they have an objectively verifiable razor flat FR - sheesh !

When did Audio engineering turn into voodoo ?

and as for cables.....
post #19 of 277
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lumient View Post
Audio scepticists' tend to have "glass is always half-empty" mentality and concentrate on measurements and educating other people on the laws of physics instead of ever finding the ultimate joy that is actually listening and enjoying the MUSIC.
Not true, I get constant joy from music , and I can do it without any self-deception
post #20 of 277
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lumient View Post
THE biggest lie in Audio:

Not to trust your own ears.


Audio scepticists' tend to have "glass is always half-empty" mentality and concentrate on measurements and educating other people on the laws of physics instead of ever finding the ultimate joy that is actually listening and enjoying the MUSIC.
That is insincere and a straw man argument if I ever saw one. When did enjoying music ever be about blindly falling for marketing claims and spending money where it doesn't help?

If anything, subjectivist audiophiles are gear fetishists before music lovers.
post #21 of 277
Quote:
Originally Posted by HD-5000 View Post
That is insincere and a straw man argument if I ever saw one. When did enjoying music ever be about blindly falling for marketing claims and spending money where it doesn't help?

If anything, subjectivist audiophiles are gear fetishists before music lovers.
You missed my point. I meant that one shouldn't be influenced too heavily by anyone. If you can't hear differencies in cables, you should believe your ears and not buy any expensive cables. If you find that using $1000 magic marker pen on cd-discs makes them sound better, trust you own ears, despite what others say.

I might have exaggerated a bit with the scepticist-part. But I have ran into many audio enthusiasts in other forums and in real life that seem to be very stubborn with their views that if all the cables must sound the same because it reads so in some physics text book, they sound the same, without even ever wanting to try anything but the cheap ones that came with the gear.

Many of them seem to also be very aggressive towards those who try to encourage people to try things that they have found to make their system play music in more enjoyable way. (I have also met the opposite type, who proclame that because they can for example hear the huge differencies in equipment racks when comparing those made of wood to those made of metal, their observation is a fact and have the need to convert everyone to their side).

My post wasn't ment to insult anyone. It was just provocative in the same way as the article that this thread refers to. I just meant to encourage people to try different things in this hobby THEMSELVES and discover things that help to enjoy the music more. I find it annoying that there are people proclaiming their opinions/observation as facts of what is considered good and what bad (= a lie). By doing so they also imply that the people who do otherwise are fools.

Live and let live. And enjoy good music during holidays.

BTW I agree with most of the article myself apart from the first statement. I long believed that there are no differencies in cables until I compared a few.
post #22 of 277
As lies go, I can think of worse. In the first 'lie' about cables tha author aknowledges how there are differences between cables and spending abit more money on quality will have benefits. As for high end cables, well you hardly by them by accident or get organised frauds based on selling such cables. That is true for the rest of the 'lies'. Hifi manufacturers are virtually being equated to 'boiler room' bankers who are out to make a killing ripping people off. On the last 'lie' of golden ears, how come my wife can accurately pick out different bit rates from 128 to 320 to lossless over various styles of music and I cannot?
post #23 of 277
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prog Rock Man View Post
As lies go, I can think of worse. In the first 'lie' about cables tha author aknowledges how there are differences between cables and spending abit more money on quality will have benefits. As for high end cables, well you hardly by them by accident or get organised frauds based on selling such cables. That is true for the rest of the 'lies'. Hifi manufacturers are virtually being equated to 'boiler room' bankers who are out to make a killing ripping people off. On the last 'lie' of golden ears, how come my wife can accurately pick out different bit rates from 128 to 320 to lossless over various styles of music and I cannot?
It is scary to think about cable manufacturers that way, as that really is the only other outcome. Even they cannot prove their claims though.

Not sure if this applies to you.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/25/science/25qna.html

Do you work around loud noises?
post #24 of 277
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lumient View Post
THE biggest lie in Audio:

Audio scepticists' tend to have "glass is always half-empty" mentality and concentrate on measurements and educating other people on the laws of physics instead of ever finding the ultimate joy that is actually listening and enjoying the MUSIC.
tftfy
post #25 of 277
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prog Rock Man View Post
On the last 'lie' of golden ears, how come my wife can accurately pick out different bit rates from 128 to 320 to lossless over various styles of music and I cannot?
It could just be that you haven't been trained to listen for compression artifacts, so you can't hear them.

If you wish to train yourself to hear compression artifacts, here's a good place to do that:
Artifact Training Page

Just be warned that you may force yourself to re-rip your CDs to a lossless format if you can suddenly hear the artifacts in your music!
post #26 of 277
I really hate the "DBT" guys harping at me. If I like it, I like it.
If I do the "DBT" , and hear a difference in gear, the internet
hounds will still tell me I'm wrong. The only thing it would really
prove that some guy on a keyboard can make me dance.
I believe gear makes a difference TO A POINT. Then it starts to become
an endless chase. Can a $10,000 cable make a difference?
I'll never know, but a $200 cable sure sounded better than cheap ones.
There is a level of quality and design that improves on things, then there's just
going plain overboard. All amps and cables do not sound the same.
But the good sounding ones aren't always the big $$$ ones.
post #27 of 277
Quote:
Originally Posted by Koyaan I. Sqatsi View Post
That wouldn't be so bad as long as the DBT prohibition policy was accompanied by a policy also prohibiting the passing off of subjective experiences as objective reality.
I for one am more concerned about the skeptics' usual attitude of equating negative DBT results with the proof that the investigated differences don't really exist. (Moreover, positive results don't seem to leave traces in their minds, like my own.)


Quote:
Originally Posted by nick_charles View Post
X2 - The level of magical thinking on this forum is frankly dismaying, if I had a dollar for very time someone spoke about such and such being bright or dark or recessed or forward when they have an objectively verifiable razor flat FR - sheesh!

When did Audio engineering turn into voodoo?

And as for cables.....
And as for amps and DACs... After all tube amps are allowed to have sonic differences due to their «higher harmonic distortion» – irrespective of values such as 0.05% and the like in most cases.


Quote:
Originally Posted by nick_charles View Post
...I get constant joy from music, and I can do it without any self-deception
You're implying that people with a non-skeptical approach in your sense are self-deceptive. That's the same kind of preconception speaking out of the «10 biggest lies in audio», whose author is full of self-confidence that all he's telling is the truth and nothing but the truth.


The self-confessed non-golden ears seem to be eager to prove that subtleties in audio don't exist. I'm fine with (relatively subtle) differences between different electronics components no matter if they measure the same or not («the same» with respect to established hearing thresholds, mind you).
.
post #28 of 277
Quote:
Originally Posted by JaZZ View Post
I for one am more concerned about the skeptics' usual attitude of equating negative DBT results with the proof that the investigated differences don't really exist. (Moreover, positive results don't seem to leave traces in their minds, like my own.)
Ok what's a reasonable conclusion to reach from negative DBT tests?
What would you conclude from negative dbt test?
post #29 of 277
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lumient View Post
If you find that using $1000 magic marker pen on cd-discs makes them sound better, trust you own ears, despite what others say. [..]
I long believed that there are no differencies in cables until I compared a few.
even power cables do matter, sad oh sad

and I definitely agree w/ everything you said...I always thought that upsampling was smokey, well 24/192 sounds really good!

the cMP/cPlayer(freeware players) coder has a lot to say about it(as long as you're using a "Sinc Interpolation" algorithm, like in Reclock..which is using the very same "Secret Rabbit Code"(SRC) he's talking about): http://photos.imageevent.com/cics/v0...rts%20v0.3.pdf



strangely, the best external DAC's are those that reclock at 24/192(to kill jitter and increase filtering accuracy): CameraHobby - Benchmark DAC-1 Review

anyway, what matters is that I like this setup very much, skeptics can just A/B against foobar...certitudes are meant to be broken.
post #30 of 277
Damn, I thought the question was something about "the biggest lies in Audio???? Well I think it's The (OUTRAGEST PRICEs), for almost all Hi end audio equipment!!! This $$$$$jump has been over the past 3yrs...Just look at a few 2-3yr old audio mags. The "Best Stuff" started around 10-20 grand, tops..Look at this year..Everything, starts at least 25-150+ grand!!!!The technology. hasn't changed, we all know that...Labor??? I don't think so!!! My wages over the last few yrs haven't gone up that much, including my doctor buddie who would spend 10gs like i would spend 1-2 gs on some "NEW Eqp" upgrade...So who's buying these 100g speakers, or the 50g record players/cd decks, I won't even go into $$$$$cables!!!! This is a rant I know, but come on, all you ever read about is "HOW THE HI END ISN'T REACHING THE YOUNG, or the MASSES! Anyway back to the LIE, We each hear and like our music differently and out of different makes/models, Right! Some, just have systems that sound closer to what we like and hear from our own rigs...But as a whole every Audio Friend I have Has a system that Always gets my feet tappin'...and that's THE "TRUTH" Peace
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