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MDR-SA5000... Can they be bettered? - Page 3

post #31 of 274
Quote:
Originally Posted by clarinetman View Post
Thanks! That's quite a lot of info.

A stupid question... What's the difference between "highs" and "treble", exactly? Do the DT48s have a more more warm or cold presentation? I tend to dislike anything too warm/dark, being a Grado fanatic (although I'm ready for something different).

Most importantly though, do the DT48s really knock the DT880s out of the park in terms of detail/clarity/realism for the extra 50-100 dollars? I heard somewhere else that the DT880 sounded "veiled" by comparison, but is it really a difference worth the extra buck?
The DT48a are very analytical, cold, and sterile. They suck the emotion out of music.. Avoid the DT48a. The DT48e are more forgiving and very neutral.. easily influenced by components and source. In other words, very transparent. They can sound warm/cold dependinding on the gear and source material. The DT48e does not knock the socks off the DT880 in terms of clarity and detail, the difference is noticeable, some more then others. There are so many versions of the DT48. Compared to my 08 DT48e, yes, there is a VERY slight veil compared to the DT880/SA5000. Same with detail. Comparing the DT48a/NAGRA DT48 Silver, the veil is much more noticeable along with a good bump in resolve and detail. In terms of realism all versions of the DT48 beat the DT880 05 250 ohm by a modest margin IMO.

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post #32 of 274
Quote:
Originally Posted by sokolov91 View Post
Thank you very much for taking the time for this break down. The DT48 seems to have all the elements of the SA5k I enjoy, but lacking, at least compared to the 880, what I was hoping to gain on top of what the SA5k had to offer. I guess that was a bit of an unrealistic goal.

I will definitely have to try and find them used. They seem very interesting.

Thank you again
If rock is your main genre just get the DT880. The DT48 won't get your toes tapping. I still love the DT880 bass..But for drums the SA5000 are the most accurate IMO. But if you get lucky and find a DT48 really cheap, go for it.
post #33 of 274
Quote:
Originally Posted by tvrboy View Post
I own the SA5K and DT-48e. If you want something more musical with better sound stage, don't get the DT48. It has no soundstage, no bass, and sounds terrible with anything except acoustic instruments and vocals. However, the DT48 will totally spank the SA5K for detail resolution.
Forgive me for not multi quoting.. I'm using my PS3.. The DT48e has sound stage, it's just very horizontal heavy. The DT48 was made in a time when L/R was king. 1937. No 5.1 SS or engineering headphones to manufacure a larger then life sound stage. For the DT48e the SS is about average for a closed headphone. The bass is also neutral with no emphasis or artifical boost, so they sound light. Also high roll off.. The bass you get will vary greatly from track to track. Put in Jazz then 2 live crew. The bass difference will be very noticeable.. The DT48 sound best with acoustics and vocals, but would hardly call them awful for other genres with amped instruments. They are my every day can, and use them 80% of the time when I listen to music.
post #34 of 274
HD800 better SA5000, but have similar signature. DT880 is not an upgrade of SA5000, but HD800 is.
post #35 of 274
Quote:
Originally Posted by ast View Post
HD800 better SA5000, but have similar signature. DT880 is not an upgrade of SA5000, but HD800 is.
I still want my Quaila 10.. Seriously, I favor the SA5000 over the DT880.. To be fair, the 600 ohm version could be a whole other beast.
post #36 of 274
Quote:
Originally Posted by ast View Post
HD800 better SA5000, but have similar signature. DT880 is not an upgrade of SA5000, but HD800 is.
I'm surprised it took this long for it to be mentioned.
From what I've heard, HD800 is the new kid on the block in terms of detail etc, although it has slightly more resonance behind it (if you follow some waterfalls on ryumatsuba) which I guess would make it slightly more inviting than the SA5000.

You might want to audition the AD2000 as well to see if you prefer them to the SA5000.

Otherwise, I'd look at upgrading your source or amp, perhaps even getting an amp to compensate for these 'irritating highs' (which may help you with your 325 as well if you find the same problem), because I think anything else would probably be a drastically different presentation.
post #37 of 274
Quote:
Originally Posted by clarinetman View Post
You stated that the DT48 sounds horrible with anything other than acoustic and vocal music, but is better than the SA5000 in detail. The question being, is the DT48 better in detail with only acoustic and vocal music or with every genera?
It is extremely detailed with every type of recording. I just think the FR is too flat for rock, hip hop, pop, pretty much everything with amp'd instruments or synthesized beats. Doesn't sound good to me. I agree with KBI - if you can find one for less than 50 bucks, try it out. Otherwise you might be making an expensive mistake. I spent $170 on mine and I rarely listen to it.
post #38 of 274
Quote:
Originally Posted by kool bubba ice View Post
The DT48a with stock cable has the smallest sound stage I ever heard
well, seeing the cups size it had to be expected....and I *really* don't believe that a recable would increase the cups size either
Quote:
Originally Posted by kool bubba ice View Post
The DT48 won't get your toes tapping.
ooooooooh, tiny SS and boring sound....that sounds great! for ppl who like a wiiiiide SS, great comfort and stellar PRaT, there's still the cd3k
post #39 of 274
Quote:
Originally Posted by ford2 View Post
If you love the SA5000's sound then you will love the sound of the CD3000,the 5000 is no match for the 3000 it has all that the 5000 has +++++ more.
I LOVE the SA5000, but I hate the CD3000 to me the only thing that the CD3000 wins is the wideness of the soundstage. The SA5000 is better in all other respect

I'm in the same position with the OP of trying to find an upgrade to the SA5000, I'll let you know some of my findings.

DT880 600ohm has a rather similar sound, I like it quite a bit, but if you think the SA5000 is fatiguing, the DT880 would be even more fatiguing, the highs are hotter with the DT880 600ohm.

As for the AD2000, I sold it in favor of the SA5000 AD2000 is just too warm for me.

The HD800 is very good, but I wont consider it a total win hands down compared to the SA5000, the HD800 is very neutral and slightly laid back, it really needs a warm tube amp to give it some emotion. With my DA11 it's ruthlessly neutral and revealing and the bass is pretty lacking, it sounds too sterile and boring to my ears.

The cans that I'm interested in trying right now is the W5000 and A2000X. To see if they can do better than the SA5000. Of course if I ran out of options I think I'll just go with a Qualia 010, or maybe an R10, or even an OmegaII..........
post #40 of 274
oops :P
post #41 of 274
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kool bubba ice View Post
If rock is your main genre just get the DT880. The DT48 won't get your toes tapping. I still love the DT880 bass..But for drums the SA5000 are the most accurate IMO. But if you get lucky and find a DT48 really cheap, go for it.
Drums are actually what sealed the deal on the SA5k not being a sellable headphone for be haha. I am a drummer myself, and boy to these babies know what they are doing! Tool sounds phenomenal on them .
post #42 of 274
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrGreen View Post
I'm surprised it took this long for it to be mentioned.
From what I've heard, HD800 is the new kid on the block in terms of detail etc, although it has slightly more resonance behind it (if you follow some waterfalls on ryumatsuba) which I guess would make it slightly more inviting than the SA5000.

You might want to audition the AD2000 as well to see if you prefer them to the SA5000.

Otherwise, I'd look at upgrading your source or amp, perhaps even getting an amp to compensate for these 'irritating highs' (which may help you with your 325 as well if you find the same problem), because I think anything else would probably be a drastically different presentation.
I guess amping was something I have sort of neglected. A nice tube amp is what I am really missing from my collection. I think the Adiotailor Jade sounds quite promising. Or maybe a little dot MK4se. I would be more willing to try another LD as opposed to other chinese companies as at least I know first had they are legit.

Maybe I am ignorant, but as long as I have a good solid state amp, and I will assume my LD MK5 is pretty decent, would playing around with an EQ be the same as getting a different amp? Sounds much cheaper to me ahaha.

The denons interest me too, but they too seem to be god awful, or the cats ass depending on who you talk to plus they are closed... I have never owned hi-fi closed headphones. Do the denons scale well? D2000vsD5000vsD7000? They aren't too too expensive on amazing. I guess a main issue is I don't even really get a chance to audition headphones...

The HD800 would be promising... except at 1400$ it is quite a leap in price... over 3x more than I have spent on any headphone. Maybe I should just plan on getting a can to compensate for the SA5K and then wait for them to come down in price. New beyer T1 too... what to do what to do...
post #43 of 274
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sieg9198 View Post
I LOVE the SA5000, but I hate the CD3000 to me the only thing that the CD3000 wins is the wideness of the soundstage. The SA5000 is better in all other respect

I'm in the same position with the OP of trying to find an upgrade to the SA5000, I'll let you know some of my findings.

DT880 600ohm has a rather similar sound, I like it quite a bit, but if you think the SA5000 is fatiguing, the DT880 would be even more fatiguing, the highs are hotter with the DT880 600ohm.

As for the AD2000, I sold it in favor of the SA5000 AD2000 is just too warm for me.

The HD800 is very good, but I wont consider it a total win hands down compared to the SA5000, the HD800 is very neutral and slightly laid back, it really needs a warm tube amp to give it some emotion. With my DA11 it's ruthlessly neutral and revealing and the bass is pretty lacking, it sounds too sterile and boring to my ears.

The cans that I'm interested in trying right now is the W5000 and A2000X. To see if they can do better than the SA5000. Of course if I ran out of options I think I'll just go with a Qualia 010, or maybe an R10, or even an OmegaII..........
Do let me know if you make any progress haha. Laid back as a con doesn't seem so bad to me though, as I thoroughly enjoy my HD600's they just lack detail (a lot when compared to SA5K) and speed. The laid back presentation I would say is one of their strongest point. They make music very enjoyable to me.

The W5000 are a decent price on amazon. I have never heard AT though. I hear they sound thin. Haven't seen a review that has enticed me to buy any one of their headphones yet, except the l3000.

Thanks for your input as well, it's very helpful.
post #44 of 274
In reply to original post:

I recommend you to follow step by step, moving to the next step if you are not satisfied with the previous:

1) Recable your SA5000 with 26 AWG or thicker OFC cable. Mogami Neglex is affordable and good sounding. 28 AWG or thicker solid silver (not silver plated copper) will be even better while more expensive.

2) Upgrade your DAC to some NOS DAC - Devilsound, MHDT, etc.

3) Try W1000 or W5000.

4) Try HD800 or stats.
post #45 of 274
Quote:
Originally Posted by sokolov91 View Post
Drums are actually what sealed the deal on the SA5k not being a sellable headphone for be haha. I am a drummer myself, and boy to these babies know what they are doing! Tool sounds phenomenal on them .
You too!! Man, nothing tops the SA5000 for drums.. Everything just sounds right.. I regret selling my pair for that one reason.. Like when a rock song, starts off with the slow drums..
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