MDR-SA5000... Can they be bettered? - Page 15

Greenie should try the DT48a. Corpse have more life.. & the DT48e makes the SA5000 sound like a grado..

I don't "insist" that you trust your ears at all, in fact you may be right that yours are untrustworthy. I do insist that I trust mine, however.

As far as data being more "accurate" than human hearing, I would say that measurements are the tail and our perceptions the dog. I have measured audio gear for a living, so I have no irrational thing about measurements.

The ears are the "thing itself". And psychoacoustics and expectation bias is also experienced by people who use measurements to decide what they have "heard", so that's a sword that cuts both ways.

Personally, I weigh everyone's (including my own ) opinions about EVERYTHING with a grain of salt. And sticking to "objective" measurements does save you the effort of actually listening, so carry on!

I am sure no offense is taken . Funny, I am usually the guy boring everyone with the scientific stuff (as KBI will attest), but I also know there is uncertainty in science, especially the science of headphones. In fact, there is no universally accepted objective FR curve of how a headphone should measure or how it should be measured, for that matter!

The ear/brain system converts acoustic pressure to electrical signals which are sent to a processor (brain) that is constantly performing real-time fast-fourier transforms on these signals (while processing tremendous amounts of other non-related information) and interprets the results as emotions, directional perceptions and body movements. Pretty impressive, to me.

Measuring the specs of your EMU-0404 is trivial, that can be done with mere inanimate objects (test gear). As long as there is a thinking being to control the equipment and interpret the results of course.

Kevin

Actually, I learned a lot from your post, just have a hard time understanding half of it.. Your expertise in this area is just greater then mine, but always find your post informative.

Thanks, but I can take no credit. I am just an inveterate reader, the other folks do the heavy lifting. And half of it I don't understand .

I'm just like the thief in Dirty Harry; I gots to know!

Kevin

That brings me to a movie that had a funny line.. Reading rots your brain.. Some old baby sitter said it..

Hmmm... Maybe that's what wrong, my brain is rotten .

Global warming scandal....you're confusing science with politicization of science. Politicians, journalists and shareholders like to poke there big faces into science and yes they can even influence the occasional study to their liking. But by and large scientists including me are only interested in acquiring knowledge, and care little about manipulating it to serve a purpose. We ask nature the questions and it provides the answers - simple as that.

It's very easy to measure sound, it's about as easy as reading the temperature outside, or the number of milliliters of green tea in my cup. There's nothing difficult about it - at least not compared to more complex multi-variable data.

Irregardless, the human ear tolerancee is usually less than 1db, whereas a simple machine is precise to several hundred / thousand times beyond that. Multimeters, thermometers, scales, microscopes, mass spectrometers etc (all basic measuring devices) offer precision that no human could ever dream of measuring. Furthermore, one of the fundamentals of science is that it can be reproduced. You don't have to take my word for it or any other scientist, you can go out and take the measurements yourself, just like you can throw an apple into the air and watch it fall to the ground. All it takes is a little investment to learn the basics of science and suddenly the world opens up to you.

I think it is important to remember that measurements give us a standard, and remove the subjective. Without measurements you couldn't:

Drive a car (mmm...I think I'm going below the speedlimit)
Turn on a TV
Build a house
Make it to work
Call a friend
Type this message
etc etc etc

If you tell me something is "bassy" and I disagree with you, the only way to tell the truth about it is to apply an objective standard such as: The signal is attenuated by 3db at 250hz. But words like that are totally frowned upon by people at head-fi. Do you know how many arguments could be resolved if we stuck to measurements? Conversations about how "bassy" a headphone is would be totally unnecessary because then it would only be relative, and psychoacoustics (a confounding variable) would be eliminated.

This isn't rocket science - I'm actually amazed at how many head-fiers are actually anti-science. You wouldn't have anything to listen to if it weren't for science, nor would we be having this discussion in such a way as we are now.

I knew it. k3oxkjo, your post was like trying to cut butter with a laser beam. The only explanation Catharsis needs is that different ears have different hrtf's. If the people who decided the SA5000's frequency response were grilled by their bosses "why is there a scooped out midrange" they could provide an hrtf example where the midrange is actually just fine. There is no 100% correct hrtf model because every single person on the planet has a unique ear shape.

Music has been around longer then science..& music, however primitive, could survive without science.. Measurements means very little if we don't actually hear what the data represents.. We all have preferences, we all hear differently, & we all have biases, either consciously or subconsciously.. So, when it comes to measurements, studies, etc, I'm not 100% sold on it..

Too be frank, science just muddies things.. You want to put science in with something as subjective as music, where emotional, history, preference, etc come into play.. The D7000 could measure flat on every test, but how many would believe it when they heard it? Try telling someone they are wrong in what they hear.. Science is flawed. Science isn't always right... Science & audio doesn't mix.. Music is emotional, & you want to involve numbers, 'facts', & hard data into the equation. It doesn't work.

Hi Kool, I actually brought and sold the DT48e as new a year ago, the heavy weight aggrevate some health problem of mine. I was looking to see if the SA5000 is a close call. Thanks for your suggestion anyway.

This thread looks like it might be on its way to closure considering how radically off-topic it is now.

To the OP: I recommend a much better amp and DAC as the solution for your SA5000s. My regular cans are bright and fast, and they are only not fatiguing because the gear I use them with is high quality.