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MDR-SA5000... Can they be bettered? - Page 14

post #196 of 274
2/18/10 at 4:48am
Thread Starter 
OK!

So I found a pair of W1000X on ebay and won the bid for a fair price. I decided I would get them, against my better financial judgement. I will have to sell at least one headphone to help pay for them if I like them... So my K702 is hiding in a corner right now... And my SR325i are nowhere to be found .

They are coming from the states... so If I am lucky I will have them by the end of next week. Sadly, as soon as I sealed the deal on this purchase, a vendor of pro 900 just dropped their price by another 20$ which left be a tad bitter as with shipping and import duties, they were withing my price range. If I get used to the notion of selling gear (admittedly I am a pack rat) I may just end up with those soon enough too XD.

Apparently the W1000X are better than the HE-5, which in turn is comparable to the HD800... so I am really hoping this is my entry into top class headphones I have been eagerly awaiting for so long.

They are not a W5000, but for the slight lack in detail they apparently have, they are said to have a very nice AT sound, with much more bass, and good quality bass to boot. So, this may just be the SA5K replacement I was hoping for!

I am extremely excited, and will post initial impressions here, and in the W1000X thread. I will also compare it against my other headphones after a week or two of solid burning and listening.

So if anyone is interested, check back!

Also... I have yet to get an answer in other threads but any votes or comments for Burson 160 vs. Goldpoint pro vs. Meier Corda concerto..

If I sell on head-fi I will make a proper FS thread, but If anyone wants first dibs, pm me. It will still be done through a FS thread for mutual protection. Phones being considered now are SR-325i and K702.
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post #197 of 274
2/27/10 at 4:36am
Thread Starter 
Hey guys,

So I finally got some time to do a review. It's not entirely finished, but it is up!
I will do some more in depth comparison with the SA5K in this thread when I have a bit more time!

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f4/ath...6/#post6436675

Check it out!
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post #198 of 274
2/27/10 at 5:04am
Quote:
Originally Posted by sokolov91 View Post
OK!

So I found a pair of W1000X on ebay and won the bid for a fair price. I decided I would get them, against my better financial judgement. I will have to sell at least one headphone to help pay for them if I like them... So my K702 is hiding in a corner right now... And my SR325i are nowhere to be found .

They are coming from the states... so If I am lucky I will have them by the end of next week. Sadly, as soon as I sealed the deal on this purchase, a vendor of pro 900 just dropped their price by another 20$ which left be a tad bitter as with shipping and import duties, they were withing my price range. If I get used to the notion of selling gear (admittedly I am a pack rat) I may just end up with those soon enough too XD.

Apparently the W1000X are better than the HE-5, which in turn is comparable to the HD800... so I am really hoping this is my entry into top class headphones I have been eagerly awaiting for so long.

They are not a W5000, but for the slight lack in detail they apparently have, they are said to have a very nice AT sound, with much more bass, and good quality bass to boot. So, this may just be the SA5K replacement I was hoping for!

I am extremely excited, and will post initial impressions here, and in the W1000X thread. I will also compare it against my other headphones after a week or two of solid burning and listening.

So if anyone is interested, check back!

Also... I have yet to get an answer in other threads but any votes or comments for Burson 160 vs. Goldpoint pro vs. Meier Corda concerto..

If I sell on head-fi I will make a proper FS thread, but If anyone wants first dibs, pm me. It will still be done through a FS thread for mutual protection. Phones being considered now are SR-325i and K702.
The Goldpoint V5 drives low ohm headphones very well. Very detailed, highly resolving, pitch black back ground, excellent instrument decay.. Ultra clear.. Will tame any uncontrolled bass, full, and really grabs the music.. A bit bright, with harsh highs for the first 30 hrs, but settles nicely.. Great amp for the price.. And exceeds it's price point.
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post #199 of 274
2/27/10 at 2:39pm
Now that i have the SA5000 for some time i can honesly say: I LIKE. These are very technically accomplished cans with a clinical refernce sound, Much like the K701 delievers, with more detail but with even lighter bass. One (of the few) aspect that these do better to my ears than the W5000 is tonal accuracy. They're almost neutral by comparison and seperation of instruments is much easier to handle. I find them actually darker also, If not smoother in the upper mids and treble. The whole charachter is more dryer and 'sober' (un-euphonic i mean). I think the two 5000's compliment each other pretty well, despite their apperant similarities.
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post #200 of 274
2/27/10 at 7:41pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amarphael View Post
Now that i have the SA5000 for some time i can honesly say: I LIKE. These are very technically accomplished cans with a clinical refernce sound, Much like the K701 delievers, with more detail but with even lighter bass. One (of the few) aspect that these do better to my ears than the W5000 is tonal accuracy. They're almost neutral by comparison and seperation of instruments is much easier to handle. I find them actually darker also, If not smoother in the upper mids and treble. The whole charachter is more dryer and 'sober' (un-euphonic i mean). I think the two 5000's compliment each other pretty well, despite their apperant similarities.
I am glad you are enjoying them. The bass will most likely grow on you. It is incredibly tight, but very well defined.

I am rather happy I did not go for the W5000 if the SA5000 are darker and smoother in comparison lol! But yes, their tone is simply amazing.

Enjoy!
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post #201 of 274
2/27/10 at 9:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amarphael View Post
Now that i have the SA5000 for some time i can honesly say: I LIKE. These are very technically accomplished cans with a clinical refernce sound, Much like the K701 delievers, with more detail but with even lighter bass. One (of the few) aspect that these do better to my ears than the W5000 is tonal accuracy. They're almost neutral by comparison and seperation of instruments is much easier to handle. I find them actually darker also, If not smoother in the upper mids and treble. The whole charachter is more dryer and 'sober' (un-euphonic i mean). I think the two 5000's compliment each other pretty well, despite their apperant similarities.
Very good post on the sound of the SA5000. I agree there is something of a "darkness" to them, but not as a property of lacking treble sparkle or presence. I think it's actually a property of their extreme imaging capabilities, and how each image in the soundstage seems surrounded by black silence.
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post #202 of 274
3/18/10 at 11:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by AmanGeorge View Post
I owned and sold the SA5000 because I didn't find them that involving. Then a few weeks ago, I heard them on a top-notch balanced rig and they were substantially better than they were single ended on my system at the time. If you really like them, this is a potential route for you, although it's an expensive one (probably more expensive than just buying an HD800 once you upgrade source and amp). But I really was blown away by the balanced SA5K I heard - it didn't sound too far behind the HD800.

I own and love the CD3K - I think it shares some of the strengths of the SA5K, but I find it to be much more musical. There's something special about the CD3K to my ears that makes it kind of un-sellable to me. If you get a chance to listen to one ever, do it - it might blow your mind like it did mine.

I wouldn't buy a DT880. To my ears the DT880 had a noticeably recessed midrange that I think you won't like if you enjoy the SA5K, which has a very forward midrange.
Both objective measurements (headroom graphs, my own measurements) show a scooped out midrange on the SA5000, whereas the DT880 is considerably more flat. I own both and to my ears, those graphs tell the truth.

If we let the machines to the talking, they'll tell you that the SA5000 truly lacks the midrange - and they don't come with expectation bias nor are they affected by pschyoacoustics.
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post #203 of 274
3/18/10 at 12:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Catharsis View Post
Both objective measurements (headroom graphs, my own measurements) show a scooped out midrange on the SA5000, whereas the DT880 is considerably more flat. I own both and to my ears, those graphs tell the truth.

If we let the machines to the talking, they'll tell you that the SA5000 truly lacks the midrange - and they don't come with expectation bias nor are they affected by pschyoacoustics.
Frequency response is really only part of the picture.

Frequency response graphs will tell you that AKG K701s are essentially Flat down low as are ER4Ps. Both, however, have such low impact it doesn't sound anywhere near close to that.

They are not infallible. Not to mention various difficulties associated with measuring headphones, and many inconsistencies that may occur.

Not to mention this "scooped out midrange" you mentioned doesnt really seem to be there at all (you actually have to shift the SA5k up in this graph due to the differences in acoustical energy in the graphs, due to the spike in the SA5ks at 1khz).

Then we have to take into account the V shape of equal loudness contours. Blah blah.

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post #204 of 274
3/18/10 at 4:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Catharsis View Post
Both objective measurements (headroom graphs, my own measurements) show a scooped out midrange on the SA5000, whereas the DT880 is considerably more flat. I own both and to my ears, those graphs tell the truth.

If we let the machines to the talking, they'll tell you that the SA5000 truly lacks the midrange - and they don't come with expectation bias nor are they affected by pschyoacoustics.
I wouldn't run very far with the graphs. Measuring headphones and evaluating those measurements is fraught with difficulty (as the folks who do this in reserch will tell). And looking at graphs usually results in expectation biases too.
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post #205 of 274
3/18/10 at 5:49pm
The DT880 have a recessed mid range compared to my HF-2 IMO and it is very noticeable. At least it's not as bad as the ALO-780 though.
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post #206 of 274
3/19/10 at 9:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by sokolov91 View Post
They are quick, brutally detailed, have amazing tone...

Tonality is important to me, the SA5000 has been described in these forum as cold, dry, clinical, plasticky, harsh, wonky.....and "amazing tone", help me understand this....are we saying that this is solely an issue of upstream components ?
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post #207 of 274
3/19/10 at 9:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by k3oxkjo View Post
I wouldn't run very far with the graphs. Measuring headphones and evaluating those measurements is fraught with difficulty (as the folks who do this in reserch will tell). And looking at graphs usually results in expectation biases too.
As limited as technical (objective) data may be, it's still more accurate than human hearing and I don't trust my ears as much as head-fier's would insist that I do. Our ears are extremely limited in their perception, and are heavily influenced by psychoacoustics and expectation bias. In fact, over the last couple of years I've learned to pretty much weigh everyone's opinion about sound with a grain of salt and stick to objective measurements. Head-fi consists of an overwhelming majority of subjective pseudoscience voodoo sound believers that will suck you in and spit you out with all of their mumbo-jumbo crap; almost as bad as creationism in my books. No offense head-fiers.

I'll give anyone here a million bucks if they can measure the specs of my EMU-0404 USB with their ears with the precision of electronic instruments; not that you just couldn't read the technical manual.
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post #208 of 274
3/19/10 at 10:44am
If someone has dumbo ears the SA5000 could actually have boosted midrange.
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post #209 of 274
3/19/10 at 4:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Catharsis View Post
As limited as technical (objective) data may be, it's still more accurate than human hearing and I don't trust my ears as much as head-fier's would insist that I do. Our ears are extremely limited in their perception, and are heavily influenced by psychoacoustics and expectation bias. In fact, over the last couple of years I've learned to pretty much weigh everyone's opinion about sound with a grain of salt and stick to objective measurements. Head-fi consists of an overwhelming majority of subjective pseudoscience voodoo sound believers that will suck you in and spit you out with all of their mumbo-jumbo crap; almost as bad as creationism in my books. No offense head-fiers.

I'll give anyone here a million bucks if they can measure the specs of my EMU-0404 USB with their ears with the precision of electronic instruments; not that you just couldn't read the technical manual.
When does enjoying the music come into play.. Data can also be unreliable & biased, ala, the whole global warming scandal.. In the end, I trust my ears on what sounds good instead of measurements & data run by a flawed/biased scientist, etc.. Since no one is perfect..
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post #210 of 274
3/19/10 at 4:58pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greeni View Post
Tonality is important to me, the SA5000 has been described in these forum as cold, dry, clinical, plasticky, harsh, wonky.....and "amazing tone", help me understand this....are we saying that this is solely an issue of upstream components ?
It could be heard has cold and clinical in overall feel. But what you hear just sounds so clear and unchanged. Drums sound perfect... bass strings, voices and guitars just come across as super organic. The over all sound is not a very musical one... but each instrument when listened to on its own sounds amazing. It's kind of hard to explain.
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