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Avatar The Movie - Page 6

post #76 of 270
Ahh, I see.
post #77 of 270
Originally Posted by craiglester View Post
I've yet to see a Pixar movie that attempts to
animate a realistic rendition of a living creature. It's all very stylized, not a great deal of verisimilitude.
what does this have to do with good storytelling? it's too hard to make neat visuals, so Cameron should be excused from making a decent plot with decent characters?

i'm not saying Pixar is doing the same thing as Cameron. i'm saying they are on the cutting edge of a movie-making technology as well. but they care enough about the craft of storytelling to deliver a compelling, well-built and dynamic narrative.

just because it may be harder or more expensive to animate a realistic rendition of a living creature doesn't mean that storytelling and character development has to be left in the dirt.

I felt a lot more immersion in the story than I have in any Pixar movie. Yes, some of the dialogue could have been better, some of the charaterization was a little generic, but when you're dealing with such fantastical stories, you're usually better served by generalizing a little, rather than lose the audience in minutae. It is after all a sci fi film, not a documentary.
so because it's sci-fi, it should be clichéd and filled with cardboard cutout characters? that's an insult to the genre.

Pixar's last two movies involved a love-sick robot on a desolate future Earth (which allegorized many of the same issues as Avatar and was much more eloquent in doing so), and an octogenarian who flew his house to South America with a bunch of helium balloons.

both of these movies dealt in plots that were by no means original, but their cartoon characters were crafted with more genuine emotional depth than the more physically true-to-life characters of Avatar. WALL-E and Up were both great movies... the former one of Disney's best ever. and it was the strength of their stories that took them to that level.

i'm not saying that Avatar was a terrible movie... it was beautiful, stunning... i'd see it again in a heartbeat just for the visuals. i liked it a whole lot. but there's no getting around the fact that if you take away the 3D and the beauty, it's a trite story told poorly. and Cameron shouldn't get a pass on $hitty storytelling just because he made pretty pictures.

On a side note.. be sure to watch the 7 part Phantom menace review on you tube.. now that's a movie that deserved to be ripped to pieces
yes, that movie took the Star Wars franchise to a whole new level of suck.
post #78 of 270
I'm not sure what you all expected of Avatar, you have seen a James Cameron movie before? It's not going to be Citizen Kane, although that got a panning on release too.. and was a very technically advanced movie for it's time.

It's like knocking a Michael Bay movie for being shallow.

Of course Avatar's going to have clunky characterization, you remember Titanic? Cliched as it gets.

I've yet to actually hear anyone say HOW they'd have improved on it. what would you have done better. And no cop outs like.. written a better story or put in some better characters..

Let's hear some constructive criticism from the experts.
post #79 of 270
Originally Posted by ericj View Post

District 9 is also a noble savage story - but told way better.
Surely you need to have seen both movies to make that statement. Have you seen District 9?
post #80 of 270
Why are you comparing James Cameron to Michael Bay? There is no fault in the story telling or characters of Abyss, Terminator, Terminator 2, Aliens.

Yes Cameron have always been technologically driven but it helped story telling in all these cases .

Yet to see any michael bay movie that isn´t just totally ridiculous in term of characters or story which you never had to be annoyed with on the previous mentioned movies. Good eye for action though.

How I would make it better is to make it less black and white... Navi shouldn´t be all saints they should also have dirt under their finger nails. Maybe go a bit easy on this earth stuff too which is hard to take all serious when dealing with such archetypes. Humans wouldn´t be that overly cynical about it either. Maybe rather fighting for their survival rather then some pointless unobtanium to get more dimensions into it and make it more real instead. Simply not giving everything away but again the base line for the story telling is somewhere around 10 or something for this.

Oh and more dirt and blood but that is of course impossible for the very same reason.
post #81 of 270
So much aggression and no sex at all, they should call Asexual and not Avatar, this movie is totally ****ed up
post #82 of 270
I'd have liked to have had the back story fleshed out a little more.. whay is this stuff so valuable, how long have they been on the planet, what happened to previous attempts to negotiate.. those were kinda glossed over.. so yeah backstory could have been better.

District 9.. oh the south africa/ apartheid allegory, with the ridiculous action last 3rd. I thought it was ok, not terribly interesting though. Maybe a better font for the subtitles would have helped
post #83 of 270
Avatar was just as great as it's director. For those who have seen the movie, you all can vouch that this movie is the new breakthrough in cinematic visual effects. Nonetheless, no movie is flawless. I see some of you are saying the story is cliche, which i have no problem with, cliche doesn't necessarily mean bad. It's how you present it and build up to them. But if you really analyze the film, doesn't the story line seem a little non - original? Lets see here, Pocahontas anyone? Jake Sully = John Smith, Neytiri = Pocahontas, Na'vi = Indians, Soldiers = Pilgrims, Pocahontas was to be wed to the top hunter within the tribe, same with Neytiri, i can go on and on about how these two movies are identical, the Na'vi even dressed like Indians. Other than the plagiarized storyline, this movie was still EPIC, and i will see it for the 4th time today.
post #84 of 270
Seriously, I'm glad I went, but I agree with the numerous other posts in this thread complaining about the storytelling.

They could have done something really unique with the whole Alien tribe angle; instead, they were basically a representation of the Western idea of Native Americans, except blue.

The humans were absurd in this movie. "I wanna make it home by dinner!" Totally ridiculous. I mean, we get it! They're pure, insidious evil. Evil, evil Chevron. Evil. Evil. Kill these blue savages. The thing is, this is a modern day Hollywood action movie, and its not that the writers are bad writers, its that people seem to enjoy movies with bad writing. "You're not the only one with a gun, *****!" Horrible.

Honestly, I feel a little ripped off. James Cameron has been responsible for some SCI-FI CLASSICS. Some of the true greats, with good writing, good characterization, good storytelling, everything.

I was expecting the same from this movie, and maybe that was a little unfair. I was expecting an instant Sci-Fi classic. What we got was a regular ass movie which was freaking awesome to watch. I mean, I had a few "oh DAMN" moments while watching this. If they had bothered to add in some decent storytelling and characters (not to mention acting), it could have been something a lot more than what it is.
post #85 of 270
Just got back from seeing it in 3D.

Great movie, that's all I have to say. And I don't enjoy shallow movies, so I'm not sure what some people are complaining about. I was thoroughly entertained, from beginning to end.
post #86 of 270
Originally Posted by TopPop View Post
Great movie, that's all I have to say. And I don't enjoy shallow movies, so I'm not sure what some people are complaining about. I was thoroughly entertained, from beginning to end.
I completely agree.
post #87 of 270
I saw it in 3D today as well. The animation aspect of it was quite spectacular and I was quite impressed due to the fact that the last 3D movie I saw, I had to wear blue and red glasses. However, it did lose its magic after the first hour or so. It began to look 2D when it got to the final battle. Quite a dramatic change considering I nearly crapped myself watching the previews in 3D.

Other than that, the huge flaws about the movies had already been brought up. The plot and acting was quite predictable and formulatic. A nagging voice in the back of my head told me I've seen this. About a hundred times. In every anime or movie aimed at adolescents produced by Disney, Fox or Japan.

Although the narrative and everything else would be what I consider average or less, it still had a rather entrancing effect which possibly could be attributed to the 3D glasses but I still mildly enjoyed myself.

All in all. Reminded me of the Vietnam War because David defeated Goliath. Thought it was good but didn't think it was great.
post #88 of 270
Avatar (in Digital 3D) is very good.

Visually stunning. That's what matters with this movie.
post #89 of 270
Originally Posted by TopPop View Post
Just got back from seeing it in 3D.

Great movie, that's all I have to say. And I don't enjoy shallow movies, so I'm not sure what some people are complaining about. I was thoroughly entertained, from beginning to end.
I took the family down to Hoyt's in the 'riff today to see this flick in 3D, and TopPop has hit the nail on the head here, it was fantastic and thoroughly enjoyed by the whole clan. The film was so visually stunning, too much depth in the plot would of detracted from the sensory delight given via the eyeballs. Predictable but enjoyable and believable storyline. To me, a very nice vision of an alien world along with showing some of mankind's good and not so good traits and values.

Not a Best Picture Oscar winner for sure (i'm hoping District 9 takes that), but Visual Effects must be a certainty. A big bonus for me this year is seeing sci-fi films turning out some great films to do the genre justice.

One more plus for me with regards to Avatar, Sigourney Weaver has still got it in spades. Where she's being plugged into the good old Tree of Souls, her human body still had all the right curves in all the right places. Good to see a film actress aging very nicely (digitally enhanced or not, Ripley still has a great bod).

Great film.
post #90 of 270
It was beautiful, if the plot was somewhat predictable - but it was enjoyable.
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