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The Loudness War - your experiences - Page 6

post #76 of 140
The music industry is going to hell at the moment.

When you explain it to the artists (indie or pro) they sometimes agree and see the point but fear that a lack of hyper-compression will make their EP's and full length records sell less.

When you explain it to the labels, the feel the same way as the artists.

When you explain it to the mix engineers, the feel the use of a loud mix will make their work stand out more. If they understand the point you are making, they feel the artist will think their mix was inadequate.

What seems to be happening more and more is that artists hire a proper mix engineer for the mix and just pay him a little extra to "master" it. All the mix engineer does is brickwall it and call it mastering.

I am darn near my breaking point with this.
post #77 of 140
Listen to 'Smash' by the Offspring, the last track has a big silence. Is it just an exception to the rule?
post #78 of 140
Quote:
When you explain it to the artists (indie or pro) they sometimes agree and see the point but fear that a lack of hyper-compression will make their EP's and full length records sell less.

When you explain it to the labels, the feel the same way as the artists.

I am darn near my breaking point with this.
Still, don't give up. I'm glad there is people like you, giving artists and labels the facts. It might seem hopeless, but if even 1 out of 20 listens, it's 1 less brickwalled album out there.

I don't know the technical stuff behind it, but I don't know how anyone can consider brickwalled albums to sound better. I don't even need to look at the wavform to know, it's pretty easy to tell. Brickwalled albums just sound awful and I can't listen to them any more. I now download an album to 'test' it first before buying it and I think it's pretty sad that I need to do that..
post #79 of 140
It's unfortunate. There are a few artists out there with quiet music, Norah Jones is one.. I rarely listen to any alternative/rock because it sounds the worst by far to me, very harsh and very flat. I'm thinking that if the average volume for music has to be regulated, it will still be brickwalled. I wouldn't see the point as to why but I'm sure there is a record label exec that disagrees with that. It's down right sad that they think if their stuff isn't loud enough it won't sell.

Here is Robin Thicke feat. Nicki Minaj - Shakin' it For Daddy. Obviously compressed but it doesn't sound bad.
post #80 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by LFF View Post
I am darn near my breaking point with this.
me, too. i can't tell you the last time i bought a new rock record and didn't instantly become furious upon hearing the jacked levels...
post #81 of 140
If everyone tried to educate everyone else, and told each other to send in angry mails to the producers, and refuse to buy loudness war music you may get somewhere...

It would take very drastic measures to get this BS to stop.

Honestly, I don't see what's stopping the producers from giving us a good+lowfi recording to satisfy both sides, or including in hifi recordings a note to buy a proper amp and turn it up with the reason for why loudness war is bad.
post #82 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dalamar View Post
Honestly, I don't see what's stopping the producers from giving us a good+lowfi recording to satisfy both sides.
some already do. it's called vinyl.
hahahaha.
post #83 of 140
my most recent experience with the loudness war would be the new AFI cd crash love. I really like the album, but it has more clipping and distortion than you can shake a stick at i also had not listened to their previous cd decemberunderground since i got my jh-13's and dac and amp, but i just did, and it blows Crash Love out of the water, now its still brickwalled, i checked with sonic visualizer for mac, but it still manages to sound good, at least in comparison...why cant mastering engineers if they are going to brickwall, at least dont let it clip! just look at Decemberunderground and With Oden on Our Side by Amon Amarth as brickwalled cd's that still sound clean!
post #84 of 140
What do you guys think of loud albums that manage to keep their dynamics?

An example is At the Drive-In's Vaya. It's a loud album, yet it doesn't clip once.

Here's a waveform of one of the tracks, Heliotrope;



It has a ReplayGain of -9.95 dB

Yes, it's loud, but if I turn down the volume a tad, it sounds great. The whole album sounds very energetic and very dynamic.
post #85 of 140
Even though it doesn't show clipping in Audacity, it probably has been limited or clipped. I experienced this with a 3LW track, the video sounded fuller than the album version (both bought from iTunes) and I looked at the track in Audacity..

post #86 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dublo7 View Post
What do you guys think of loud albums that manage to keep their dynamics?

An example is At the Drive-In's Vaya. It's a loud album, yet it doesn't clip once.

Here's a waveform of one of the tracks, Heliotrope;



It has a ReplayGain of -9.95 dB

Yes, it's loud, but if I turn down the volume a tad, it sounds great. The whole album sounds very energetic and very dynamic.
Are you sure it doesn't clip? They may have limited the peak slightly so clipping doesn't show in Audacity (see the gap at the top of the waveform?), but it could have clipped before they did.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 089709867 View Post
Even though it doesn't show clipping in Audacity, it probably has been limited or clipped. I experienced this with a 3LW track, the video sounded fuller than the album version (both bought from iTunes) and I looked at the track in Audacity..

Like this. In this one, the peak was definitely lowered.

I don't care about the volume if it sounds good. I don't even care about clipping if it happens so little it can't be heard. Of course, I always prefer well-mastered.
post #87 of 140
from my experience, it seems like almost all modern jpop is mastered horribly.

post #88 of 140
Ah, so it's limited? I didn't know about that. Hmmm...
post #89 of 140
Our Aim | DYNAMIC RANGE | pleasurize music!

I found this site to be informative.

The have some neat dynamic range measuring tools available for download, too.
post #90 of 140

I recently found out that my own collection suffers from this.

It took a while to convert all my cd's to lossless audio files and I also believed that a remaster meant better, polished quality.

Seems that quite a lot of new remasters are crap. For people who love music, this is sad.

Now that I found a way to view waveforms in foobar, I realize how bad it is.

My question is, I replaced some of the "bad" audio files with vinyl rips, are they really better?

The plugin is installed but I have no idea how this works.

Visually at least, the vinyl rips of the "The National"albums seem better.


Edited by s0lar - 12/7/10 at 8:34am
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