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Windows 7 and EMU 0404 USB - Page 3

post #31 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by radio View Post

with 0404 usb under w7/64 and new beta drivers does the spdif work now or its still not working ?


 



Spdif doesnt need drivers to work. If you found it wasnt working, its because your pc wasnt outputting via spdif correctly.

 

USB is another matter.

post #32 of 37

sorry to revive a dead thread, but can other people chime in on this current configuration?

 

I'm currently selling my x-fi elite pro and want to use my EMU 0404 USB w/ W7 64.  Nothing too fancy, just want to listen to music and play games with my HD 595s, and for all general purpose use.

 

 

post #33 of 37

Haven't found a recent thread addressing this so I thought I'd summarize here. 

 

First off, let me say that analog I/O from my 0404 is working fairly well under Win 7, though I haven't subjected it to much punishment or band-edge cases. 

 

Also, keep in mind the 0404 PCI family is different from the USB family. In particular patchmix don't work for USB version, thought even if it did, I don't think it would help solve what I perceive as the problem. 

 

Re: S/PDIF output from Creative EMU 0404 USB:

 

S/PDIF output from the USB 0404 generally works better than reported, as long as you know what to expect and how to handle the beast. 

 

I have gotten S/PDIF out to work with the help of ASIO plugins for winamp. Many report success using plugins for other programs such as foobar. In my new world view, shims like "asio4all" shouldn't be needed/won't help. 

 

What _deosn't_ work, as far as I know, is using the S/PDIF out as a GENERAL PURPOSE audio output under Windows. So, no: you can't point your browser to an internet radio site and expect to TOSLINK right into your receiver. 

 

In my opinion, this is largely because the USB 0404 uses 4 output channels and the driver does not provide useful hooks into the 3rd and 4th channels, where the S/PDIF output lies, other than through the ASIO interface.

 

As far as I can tell, there is NO wrapper or driver for Windows or any web browser to route general purpose audio output (ie: what you hear from the analog outs) from Windows of any flavor  into the gaping maw of any ASIO driver, let alone into specific channels. 

 

The new beta driver for vista/7 (1.40 dated 9/3/10 at time of this writing) looks promising, but so far seems to downmix what appear to be additional channels into the analog output channels ie: 1 and 2. 

 

There are some new widgets available from third parties which look promising at first glance, but they seem proprietary or increasingly so. They announce themselves as virtual cable software and the like.. I haven't looked into these since I really got a handle on the underlying problem (ie: this evening), so I haven't really analysed if any of these solutions even come _close_ to what is really wanted.

 

I'm starting to think this is an intentional dumbing down of the EMU drivers for this product so that it does not compete with other current and future products from Creative/EMU.

 

The workaround from emu is recockulous. Basically you route analog out to analog in, and rely on the 0404 to re-ADC the DAC output and send the results as S/PDIF out. If you've got the buttons and such set right, the 0404 USB does this by default (sending analog input channels 1 and 2 out over S/PDIF) without any further "intervention" or settings in software. But don't touch those dials: you're inviting some of the clipping and low-signal quantization problems we try so hard to avoid by going digital in the first place by using this method. 

 

I have this gnawing feeling that if I dissassembled the driver code, I could get what we're all looking for by simply stuffing a "1" in the right binary bin: enough to trick anything destined for channels 0 and 1 into channels 2 and 3. 

 

But I haven't dis'd anything in more than 25 years. 

 

I'm thinking the only rational workaround is to use a different interface for S/PDIF out. Something like Realtek or just about anything built onto a motherboard these days.. 

 

This may not be "the point", but trust me: after hitting this issue for 10 hours at a stretch at least 3 times over the last 3 years, I've come to see "the point" from a larger perspective. 

 

"The point" is bit-perfect reproduction. And I (respectfully, to all the audiopphiles out there) suggest that by definition one bit-perfect interface is as good as any other. Once in the digital domain, it's all up to your receiver. 

 

I've only started browsing for S/PDIF cards in the last hour or so, I haven't seen these kinds of issues addressed directly. I suspect this is because this practice is so widespread and trouble-free, it's taken for granted and not discussed with anything like the fervor and frustration surrounding the issue of using an EMU 0404 USB as a general purpose USB based stereo S/PDIF out port. 

 

Am I on target there?

 

Anyone know of a cheap USB based simply S/PDIF or S/PDIF+nasty analog dongle that works under Win 7? Should be avial. for well under $20.

 

Sorry for the non-linearities in my post but I also just discovered there's an issue with cut-and-paste in Java, at least as admin. under Win 7... need to set an option. Good grief. 

 

-Jeff

 

 

 

 

post #34 of 37

Do you mean using usb-spdif converter you can fix all the problem with emu 0404 usb?
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffrodisiac View Post

Haven't found a recent thread addressing this so I thought I'd summarize here. 

 

First off, let me say that analog I/O from my 0404 is working fairly well under Win 7, though I haven't subjected it to much punishment or band-edge cases. 

 

Also, keep in mind the 0404 PCI family is different from the USB family. In particular patchmix don't work for USB version, thought even if it did, I don't think it would help solve what I perceive as the problem. 

 

Re: S/PDIF output from Creative EMU 0404 USB:

 

S/PDIF output from the USB 0404 generally works better than reported, as long as you know what to expect and how to handle the beast. 

 

I have gotten S/PDIF out to work with the help of ASIO plugins for winamp. Many report success using plugins for other programs such as foobar. In my new world view, shims like "asio4all" shouldn't be needed/won't help. 

 

What _deosn't_ work, as far as I know, is using the S/PDIF out as a GENERAL PURPOSE audio output under Windows. So, no: you can't point your browser to an internet radio site and expect to TOSLINK right into your receiver. 

 

In my opinion, this is largely because the USB 0404 uses 4 output channels and the driver does not provide useful hooks into the 3rd and 4th channels, where the S/PDIF output lies, other than through the ASIO interface.

 

As far as I can tell, there is NO wrapper or driver for Windows or any web browser to route general purpose audio output (ie: what you hear from the analog outs) from Windows of any flavor  into the gaping maw of any ASIO driver, let alone into specific channels. 

 

The new beta driver for vista/7 (1.40 dated 9/3/10 at time of this writing) looks promising, but so far seems to downmix what appear to be additional channels into the analog output channels ie: 1 and 2. 

 

There are some new widgets available from third parties which look promising at first glance, but they seem proprietary or increasingly so. They announce themselves as virtual cable software and the like.. I haven't looked into these since I really got a handle on the underlying problem (ie: this evening), so I haven't really analysed if any of these solutions even come _close_ to what is really wanted.

 

I'm starting to think this is an intentional dumbing down of the EMU drivers for this product so that it does not compete with other current and future products from Creative/EMU.

 

The workaround from emu is recockulous. Basically you route analog out to analog in, and rely on the 0404 to re-ADC the DAC output and send the results as S/PDIF out. If you've got the buttons and such set right, the 0404 USB does this by default (sending analog input channels 1 and 2 out over S/PDIF) without any further "intervention" or settings in software. But don't touch those dials: you're inviting some of the clipping and low-signal quantization problems we try so hard to avoid by going digital in the first place by using this method. 

 

I have this gnawing feeling that if I dissassembled the driver code, I could get what we're all looking for by simply stuffing a "1" in the right binary bin: enough to trick anything destined for channels 0 and 1 into channels 2 and 3. 

 

But I haven't dis'd anything in more than 25 years. 

 

I'm thinking the only rational workaround is to use a different interface for S/PDIF out. Something like Realtek or just about anything built onto a motherboard these days.. 

 

This may not be "the point", but trust me: after hitting this issue for 10 hours at a stretch at least 3 times over the last 3 years, I've come to see "the point" from a larger perspective. 

 

"The point" is bit-perfect reproduction. And I (respectfully, to all the audiopphiles out there) suggest that by definition one bit-perfect interface is as good as any other. Once in the digital domain, it's all up to your receiver. 

 

I've only started browsing for S/PDIF cards in the last hour or so, I haven't seen these kinds of issues addressed directly. I suspect this is because this practice is so widespread and trouble-free, it's taken for granted and not discussed with anything like the fervor and frustration surrounding the issue of using an EMU 0404 USB as a general purpose USB based stereo S/PDIF out port. 

 

Am I on target there?

 

Anyone know of a cheap USB based simply S/PDIF or S/PDIF+nasty analog dongle that works under Win 7? Should be avial. for well under $20.

 

Sorry for the non-linearities in my post but I also just discovered there's an issue with cut-and-paste in Java, at least as admin. under Win 7... need to set an option. Good grief. 

 

-Jeff

 

 

 

 



 

post #35 of 37

i'm also using an e-mu 0404 usb on win 7 64bit and i have a problem with the usb cable... if i don't use a short usb cable or a well shielded one, the sound is full of clicks and pops, and it's even worse if i use asio. I've taken the soundcard apart and looked to see how the 2 data wires (usb) that go into the card are handled, and they seem to go through a common core coil and they are each connected to ground via 2 diodes. Now there's a strange thing there... there's room on the board for 2 resistors that pull the data pins (usb) to the ground but i don't know what values to try and solder there, i might consider bypassing the coils with wire, disconnecting the diodes and possibly soldering some resistors between usb data wires and ground... all in an effort to make the usb0404 less sensitive to usb bus interference and long cheap cables. if anyone has more ideas i am willing to experiment on my card and post the results. i think there's a picture under this post showing the usb input of the card... and sorry to resurrect an old post but it's a great soundcard in theory, we should try to get the most of it. 

 

 

DSC01856.JPG

 

 

DSC01857.JPG

 

 

signal comes in trough the usb connector, hits the diodes in kathode(both diodes have anode connected to ground), goes trough the coils, and then through some small vias-es under the coil to the chip, the signal coming out of the coils should have been sent to ground via r323 and r324 but they are missing. doesn't usb need 50ohm termination or some **** like that to be stable?

 

Update 31 May 2012: Tried to use 1Kohm resistors for r323 and r324, the computer would no longer recognize the soundcard, tried 10Kohm resistors, soundcard worked like they were not there... 

Tried to bypass the coils, no good either, with long cables the card would just sound awful. 

But i managed to shorten a usb cable down to 50cm and now it works flawlessly.

Interesting thing is that with some cables on my laptop the soundcard would sound bad and on the main computer the sound was clean, free of pops and clicks.

Maybe it has something to do with the usb controller on the computer...


Edited by razvitm - 5/31/12 at 11:14am
post #36 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffrodisiac View Post

Haven't found a recent thread addressing this so I thought I'd summarize here. 

 

First off, let me say that analog I/O from my 0404 is working fairly well under Win 7, though I haven't subjected it to much punishment or band-edge cases. 

 

Also, keep in mind the 0404 PCI family is different from the USB family. In particular patchmix don't work for USB version, thought even if it did, I don't think it would help solve what I perceive as the problem. 

 

Re: S/PDIF output from Creative EMU 0404 USB:

 

S/PDIF output from the USB 0404 generally works better than reported, as long as you know what to expect and how to handle the beast. 

 

I have gotten S/PDIF out to work with the help of ASIO plugins for winamp. Many report success using plugins for other programs such as foobar. In my new world view, shims like "asio4all" shouldn't be needed/won't help. 

 

What _deosn't_ work, as far as I know, is using the S/PDIF out as a GENERAL PURPOSE audio output under Windows. So, no: you can't point your browser to an internet radio site and expect to TOSLINK right into your receiver. 

 

In my opinion, this is largely because the USB 0404 uses 4 output channels and the driver does not provide useful hooks into the 3rd and 4th channels, where the S/PDIF output lies, other than through the ASIO interface.

 

As far as I can tell, there is NO wrapper or driver for Windows or any web browser to route general purpose audio output (ie: what you hear from the analog outs) from Windows of any flavor  into the gaping maw of any ASIO driver, let alone into specific channels. 

 

The new beta driver for vista/7 (1.40 dated 9/3/10 at time of this writing) looks promising, but so far seems to downmix what appear to be additional channels into the analog output channels ie: 1 and 2. 

 

There are some new widgets available from third parties which look promising at first glance, but they seem proprietary or increasingly so. They announce themselves as virtual cable software and the like.. I haven't looked into these since I really got a handle on the underlying problem (ie: this evening), so I haven't really analysed if any of these solutions even come _close_ to what is really wanted.

 

I'm starting to think this is an intentional dumbing down of the EMU drivers for this product so that it does not compete with other current and future products from Creative/EMU.

 

The workaround from emu is recockulous. Basically you route analog out to analog in, and rely on the 0404 to re-ADC the DAC output and send the results as S/PDIF out. If you've got the buttons and such set right, the 0404 USB does this by default (sending analog input channels 1 and 2 out over S/PDIF) without any further "intervention" or settings in software. But don't touch those dials: you're inviting some of the clipping and low-signal quantization problems we try so hard to avoid by going digital in the first place by using this method. 

 

I have this gnawing feeling that if I dissassembled the driver code, I could get what we're all looking for by simply stuffing a "1" in the right binary bin: enough to trick anything destined for channels 0 and 1 into channels 2 and 3. 

 

But I haven't dis'd anything in more than 25 years. 

 

I'm thinking the only rational workaround is to use a different interface for S/PDIF out. Something like Realtek or just about anything built onto a motherboard these days.. 

 

This may not be "the point", but trust me: after hitting this issue for 10 hours at a stretch at least 3 times over the last 3 years, I've come to see "the point" from a larger perspective. 

 

"The point" is bit-perfect reproduction. And I (respectfully, to all the audiopphiles out there) suggest that by definition one bit-perfect interface is as good as any other. Once in the digital domain, it's all up to your receiver. 

 

I've only started browsing for S/PDIF cards in the last hour or so, I haven't seen these kinds of issues addressed directly. I suspect this is because this practice is so widespread and trouble-free, it's taken for granted and not discussed with anything like the fervor and frustration surrounding the issue of using an EMU 0404 USB as a general purpose USB based stereo S/PDIF out port. 

 

Am I on target there?

 

Anyone know of a cheap USB based simply S/PDIF or S/PDIF+nasty analog dongle that works under Win 7? Should be avial. for well under $20.

 

Sorry for the non-linearities in my post but I also just discovered there's an issue with cut-and-paste in Java, at least as admin. under Win 7... need to set an option. Good grief. 

 

-Jeff

 

 

 

 


So... old thread here, but as you yourself realized there's not a lot of discussion about this issue (SPDIF as general output).

 

Patch looping the analog monitor section may be possible... but its obviously asinine to run your pristine digital output through a so-so conversion, preamp and volume pot. NOT a solution.

 

So... my solution was lucky and works like a charm.

 

Most current motherboards that have Realtek audio onboard also feature an optical spdif out (toslink). The EMU 0404 USB can monitor incoming spdif just fine and has optical in/out. I set the Realtek optical as my default windows output, patched a toslink cable from the Realtek to the EMU, set the EMU's monitor section to spdif and (IMPORTANT!) switched the the EMU's spdif input from coaxial to optical. Make sure to turn the "Level" knob in the Direct Monitor section to full blast (its a continuous digital pot, so just crank it clockwise a few times).

 

Everything works like normal... 100% digital till it hits my Burl B2 Bomber DAC. Problem solved. =]

post #37 of 37

I'm in the same situation, I like the low latency of ASIO, and it works great over spdif.

 

However other non-ASIO programs such as web browsers are unable to output to spdif.

 

However the onboard headphone output does work, so I have headphones for watching youtube videos, etc. and speakers hooked up the SPDIF as they need digital for the active crossover.

 

I want to avoid using onboard audio as I like the low latency of ASIO for music programs.

 

If I can find a workaround I'll post it here but I'm not holding my breath.

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