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Cable DBT...how 'bout it

post #1 of 57
11/30/09 at 1:00am
Thread Starter 
Fine, the only place where it's allowed.
I would like to know the procedures, stories, anecdotes and just about everything about cable DBTing.
Pear, Nordost, STEALTH. $278 USD per inch (STEALTH Sakra)? Really, really that different than RCA stuff?
No flames/trolling intended, just want some info is all.
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post #2 of 57
11/30/09 at 1:18am
lol... your intent isn't always the outcome my son.
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post #3 of 57
11/30/09 at 1:22am
DBT is straightforward and always produces the same result: no difference between cables.

Cable believers, however, will always refuse to accept the results of a DBT, no matter how carefully done.

That's about it.
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post #4 of 57
11/30/09 at 11:45am
The problem with DBT is that "golden-ear" audiophiles should prove that cable do make a difference, not the other way around. Otherwise the situation is similar to proving the non-existence of gnomes or dwarves. Occam's razor clearly states that. However, it is not surprising that no cable manufacturer gave such a proof. Come on, DBT are not that expensive and difficult, each company selling fancy cooper/silver cables (usually made in the same factory in China) for thousands of dollars is able to do them. If golden-ears claim that differences between cables are so striking and obvious, there should be at least one test that clearly proves it. But there isn't and never be. That's pretty sad that people are so naive and willing to pay a lot of money for such a humbug.
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post #5 of 57
11/30/09 at 2:21pm
I hate how head-fi has chosen to "ghettoize" all rational perspectives by shoving them into the "sound science" forum. I feel sorry for all those new to audio, who will likely be deeply misled by the tweekers (apparently the tweekers run the site.)
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post #6 of 57
12/1/09 at 3:44am
tweekers? people addicted to uppers?
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post #7 of 57
12/1/09 at 2:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by etiolate View Post
tweekers? people addicted to uppers?
how else can someone make up 50 posts a day about headphones
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post #8 of 57
12/3/09 at 7:55am
I dont know about everyone else but I have two cheap cables and there is a definite difference in sound. Its not a lot (maybe 5 - 10% brighter sound with one cable over the other) but its definitely noticeable.

I don't know about expensive cables or if maybe something is wrong with one cable but I can make out that there is a difference and no I do NOT have golden ears.
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post #9 of 57
12/3/09 at 11:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by brendon View Post
I dont know about everyone else but I have two cheap cables and there is a definite difference in sound. Its not a lot (maybe 5 - 10% brighter sound with one cable over the other) but its definitely noticeable.

I don't know about expensive cables or if maybe something is wrong with one cable but I can make out that there is a difference and no I do NOT have golden ears.
Try this...

Connect a cable to a music device and connect it to a USB recording device and thence to a computer. Now record a short sample (< 15 seconds) of cymbals or similar from your music device to your pc using Audacity or similar.
Repeat 10 times to allow for variability. Trim and align all 10 samples so that they are the same length (they must be the exact same length ) and start in the same place. Load each sample into Audacity and run them through the spectrum analyzer using 2048 samples and export the results to 10 text files.


Now without adjusting the recording level swap the cables and repeat the exercise with cable B


In a spreadsheet application import all 10 text files for cable A and average out the results remove all data above 20000hz. Repeat for cable B so that the end result is two Average data sets. Create a line chart from the two data sets.

What level of differences do you find ? I can guarantee that the differences you will find will be tiny.

You can then of course take typical examples from both cables and DBT them.

I have done this with several cables...
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post #10 of 57
12/3/09 at 11:48am
I always wonder why golden ears don't ask themselves the very simple question - what effect can a meter of copper/silver fancy cable have on the sound of their equipment if the equipment itself contains normal copper connections (usually made of low-quality copper), a very normal copper wires in transformers/coils and absolutely no fancy geometry cables (see Cardas or Audioquest) are used in internal connections.

I always have a good laugh while reading stories of people recabling their speakers or cans and would like to ask them - you remembered to rewire the coils too, didn't you? The same issue is with power cables (another BS for me) - the majority of people has the in-wall installation made of low-purity copper and believe that adding a meter of OFC copper will do magic tricks.

But the thing that really irritates me is that people are willing to spends hundreds of USD on cables, Ayre myrtle blocks, Shakti stones, etc. and don't care about room acoustic and proper speaker placement
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post #11 of 57
12/3/09 at 1:22pm
I don't care if people choose to spend their money in that way - I'll just sit back an laugh.
I do care that this site takes a lax and frankly disgusting attitude towards science (and common sense) and lets all the people that believe in cables run the forums.
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post #12 of 57
12/3/09 at 6:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanielCox View Post
I don't care if people choose to spend their money in that way - I'll just sit back an laugh.
I do care that this site takes a lax and frankly disgusting attitude towards science (and common sense) and lets all the people that believe in cables run the forums.
Seriously, are any of the mods NOT believers? It's hard to believe that head-fi takes a balanced approached when seemingly 100% of those that run the site are believers.
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post #13 of 57
12/8/09 at 7:00am
Quote:
Originally Posted by nick_charles View Post
Try this...

Connect a cable to a music device and connect it to a USB recording device and thence to a computer. Now record a short sample (< 15 seconds) of cymbals or similar from your music device to your pc using Audacity or similar.
Repeat 10 times to allow for variability. Trim and align all 10 samples so that they are the same length (they must be the exact same length ) and start in the same place. Load each sample into Audacity and run them through the spectrum analyzer using 2048 samples and export the results to 10 text files.


Now without adjusting the recording level swap the cables and repeat the exercise with cable B


In a spreadsheet application import all 10 text files for cable A and average out the results remove all data above 20000hz. Repeat for cable B so that the end result is two Average data sets. Create a line chart from the two data sets.

What level of differences do you find ? I can guarantee that the differences you will find will be tiny.

You can then of course take typical examples from both cables and DBT them.

I have done this with several cables...
I didn't do your test, but I decided to try my old test again. I did it five or six times and while I felt the sound was different I am pretty sure it is not. Maybe my brain wants it to be different ? I did A-B testing of certain parts of a track and actively listened to the finer details in that section. After 6 tries I have come to the conclusion that I was wrong and whatever difference I heard was purely psychological. The finer details sounded the same after I got used to listening to them carefuly.

I have resigned myself to the fact that I was wrong and there is no difference in sound with the two different ICs.
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post #14 of 57
12/8/09 at 12:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by brendon View Post
I didn't do your test, but I decided to try my old test again. I did it five or six times and while I felt the sound was different I am pretty sure it is not. Maybe my brain wants it to be different ? I did A-B testing of certain parts of a track and actively listened to the finer details in that section. After 6 tries I have come to the conclusion that I was wrong and whatever difference I heard was purely psychological. The finer details sounded the same after I got used to listening to them carefuly.

I have resigned myself to the fact that I was wrong and there is no difference in sound with the two different ICs.
Welcome to reality, it's a nice place, you'll like it, it is a cheaper place to live in than woo woo cable land

But seriously it is all too easy to fool yourself into thinking you hear things that are not there, that is why blind tests are so good !
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post #15 of 57
12/8/09 at 12:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by brendon View Post
I have resigned myself to the fact that I was wrong and there is no difference in sound with the two different ICs.
Now, here's a man with the courage to admit erring, bravo!

We need more men like you for people will stop calling us audiophools
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