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Silver is a Better Conductor, but....

post #1 of 15
11/25/09 at 10:33am
Thread Starter 
You know, with silver being easy enough to find on the internet these days, what arent we using it more?

p.s.

Why does one make a 'cotton' interconnect?
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post #2 of 15
11/25/09 at 11:05am
Silver is still expensive, compared to copper, and the bottom line is that, from a physics perspective, the differences between resistance of a 10 foot copper wire and a 10 foot silver wire just aren't relevant for audio purposes.

If you are going all out whether you can hear a difference or not, silver wire (sort of) makes sense. If you are making design choices based on what will make the amp sound better, it doesn't. When building an amp, you minimize the runs of signal wire as much as possible, and then the signal goes through every PCB trace (copper, not silver) and every single component in the amp channel (cap and resistor leads usu. aren't silver, either) so the increased conductivity of the silver doesn't have a chance to make a difference.

That said, plenty of people use silver plated copper wire, and I plan to use it on my Beta 22 build because it is a good thing to have in the amp if I ever need to sell it. People get far more excited when you say "I used milspec silver plated teflon coated hookup wire" than when you say "I used hookup wire from radioshack".
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post #3 of 15
11/25/09 at 2:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by oddity View Post
Why does one make a 'cotton' interconnect?
Why not?

Why must interconnects always be made by entombing wire in a bunch of plastic?

I mean, it's not like they're being used for oil well data logging or in similarly harsh environments. All they have to do is sit behind your gear in a nice comfy home.

Cotton interconnects were used in the earliest days of telegraphy, telephony, radio and audio. They worked well then and there's no reason they can't work well today.

I like them partly because I'm an anachronist, and I like using more organic materials when I can.

Here's an old Western Electric microphone that was used by WOR back in the 1930s, it's cotton cable still in good shape.



se
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post #4 of 15
11/25/09 at 3:30pm
I believe my Stax SRX MkIII's original cable was cotton sleeved. It was very soft and supple. Too bad it had to be replaced.

I have seen the antique radio restorers using cotton tubing for wire sleeving.

Here's a DIY audio site, sadly going out of business, that listed some: DIY AUDIO STORE-Melbourne Australia High grade audiophile parts -Cotton tubing / insulation for Silver or copper wire

Parts Connection apparently has some: Non-dye Natural Colour Cotton Tubing

Here's a thread from Head-Fi where someone wanted it in black: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f21/wh...tubing-246043/

So... I guess you can still use cotton. Would be a very different, vintage look. Cotton also should dye easily so you could buy the natural and make blue, red, black, whatever you liked.
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post #5 of 15
11/25/09 at 5:40pm
On the cotton aspect - I used cotton on my recent M3 build mainly cause I was able to get a bunch for cheap. Not sure I would use it again, mainly cause I did not like working with it as much. Teflon coated wire is just easier to work with. Other thing to note, cotton insulated wire does not like my ghetto heat shrinking method of using a torch

Nothing technically wrong with cotton insulation for an amp hookup wire. Things to note is you get frayed ends and I never did come up with a good way to handle them, heat shrink can help. Which leads to the other problem, cotton BURNS so do not use a torch!
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post #6 of 15
11/25/09 at 6:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by m1abrams View Post
Nothing technically wrong with cotton insulation for an amp hookup wire. Things to note is you get frayed ends and I never did come up with a good way to handle them, heat shrink can help. Which leads to the other problem, cotton BURNS so do not use a torch!
A lot of the cotton-covered hookup wire is teflon-insulated silver-plated copper, underneath - very nearly the same stuff everybody else uses, in other words. Only with an extra covering. This is true of all the current-production stuff, as far as I know, and most of the surplus Western Electric wire out there, as well.

As for frayed ends, dip the end in PVA glue and let it dry. Voila, no fraying.

As for the original, solid silver wire question: why, least of all when everything else in your system is copper? Nobody makes silver wire for audio (or even electronic) use, so you'll have to source it from the jewelry industry. Would you like that as pure silver, sterling silver, coin silver, or a proprietary low-tarnish sterling silver? Or vermeil (gold fused over sterling), perhaps? Full-hard, half-hard, or dead soft? And how many ounces would you like? (Silver wire isn't sold by the foot, but by weight.) Then, when you have your bare wire - whose price will fluctuate on a daily basis as the precious-metal market changes - you have to figure out some way of insulating it in order for it to be useful. And, no matter what you do, the solder you use to connect it to your audio equipment is going to contain tin and other base metals, making the whole thing - even from the perspective of a crazy audiophile with little common sense - pointless.
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post #7 of 15
11/25/09 at 6:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nemo de Monet View Post
A lot of the cotton-covered hookup wire is teflon-insulated silver-plated copper, underneath - very nearly the same stuff everybody else uses, in other words. Only with an extra covering. This is true of all the current-production stuff, as far as I know, and most of the surplus Western Electric wire out there, as well.

As for frayed ends, dip the end in PVA glue and let it dry. Voila, no fraying.

As for the original, solid silver wire question: why, least of all when everything else in your system is copper? Nobody makes silver wire for audio (or even electronic) use, so you'll have to source it from the jewelry industry. Would you like that as pure silver, sterling silver, coin silver, or a proprietary low-tarnish sterling silver? Or vermeil (gold fused over sterling), perhaps? Full-hard, half-hard, or dead soft? And how many ounces would you like? (Silver wire isn't sold by the foot, but by weight.) Then, when you have your bare wire - whose price will fluctuate on a daily basis as the precious-metal market changes - you have to figure out some way of insulating it in order for it to be useful. And, no matter what you do, the solder you use to connect it to your audio equipment is going to contain tin and other base metals, making the whole thing - even from the perspective of a crazy audiophile with little common sense - pointless.
Try telling that to qusp

There are some strong believers on this forum, and in other areas of audiophilia, and I believe there actually are producers of silver (and gold) wire for their use.
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post #8 of 15
11/25/09 at 7:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nemo de Monet View Post
A lot of the cotton-covered hookup wire is teflon-insulated silver-plated copper, underneath - very nearly the same stuff everybody else uses, in other words. Only with an extra covering. This is true of all the current-production stuff, as far as I know, and most of the surplus Western Electric wire out there, as well.

As for frayed ends, dip the end in PVA glue and let it dry. Voila, no fraying.

As for the original, solid silver wire question: why, least of all when everything else in your system is copper? Nobody makes silver wire for audio (or even electronic) use, so you'll have to source it from the jewelry industry. Would you like that as pure silver, sterling silver, coin silver, or a proprietary low-tarnish sterling silver? Or vermeil (gold fused over sterling), perhaps? Full-hard, half-hard, or dead soft? And how many ounces would you like? (Silver wire isn't sold by the foot, but by weight.) Then, when you have your bare wire - whose price will fluctuate on a daily basis as the precious-metal market changes - you have to figure out some way of insulating it in order for it to be useful. And, no matter what you do, the solder you use to connect it to your audio equipment is going to contain tin and other base metals, making the whole thing - even from the perspective of a crazy audiophile with little common sense - pointless.
You can buy Teflon coated silver wire by the foot in many gauges.

The cotton insulated wire I have was not Teflon coated. Will keep the PVA glue trick in mind thanks.
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post #9 of 15
11/26/09 at 2:50am
My first recable was silver wire with techflex, looked great but the techflex was so microphonic it was rediculous. From then on I use black dyed cotton ripcord with the core pulled out. Doesn't look as nice but no rediculous scratchy microphonics everytime you move. When I see these techflex headphone cable I just shake my head.
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post #10 of 15
11/26/09 at 3:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by regal View Post
My first recable was silver wire with techflex, looked great but the techflex was so microphonic it was rediculous. From then on I use black dyed cotton ripcord with the core pulled out. Doesn't look as nice but no rediculous scratchy microphonics everytime you move. When I see these techflex headphone cable I just shake my head.
multifiliment techflex works much better for headphones, but I agree, regular techflex is no good for hp cables
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post #11 of 15
11/26/09 at 3:44am
Silk insulation has a much more refined sound compared to cotton, although silk is a better match with gold than silver. Cotton tends to soften the highs too much, why use a bright silver wire and then dull the highs you just paid for ? Cotton goes much better with aluminum. The ultimate insulation with silver wire is hemp sheathing, but it's hard to source. It has silver's brightness with a pleasant tubey distortion from the psycho-actives in the hemp.
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post #12 of 15
11/26/09 at 10:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bada bing View Post
Silk insulation has a much more refined sound compared to cotton, although silk is a better match with gold than silver. Cotton tends to soften the highs too much, why use a bright silver wire and then dull the highs you just paid for ? Cotton goes much better with aluminum. The ultimate insulation with silver wire is hemp sheathing, but it's hard to source. It has silver's brightness with a pleasant tubey distortion from the psycho-actives in the hemp.
Industrial hemp has a very low THC content, so the good tubey stuff is indeed a bit hard to source, and then you will have to strand and weave it yourself.
Hardly worth the trouble, I think.
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post #13 of 15
11/26/09 at 1:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by limpidglitch View Post
Industrial hemp has a very low THC content, so the good tubey stuff is indeed a bit hard to source, and then you will have to strand and weave it yourself.
Hardly worth the trouble, I think.
Just run your wire through a bunch of Thai sticks.

se
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post #14 of 15
11/26/09 at 1:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Koyaan I. Sqatsi View Post
Thai sticks.


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post #15 of 15
11/26/09 at 2:32pm
Now that is almost obscene.

se
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