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power cable upgrade - Page 4

post #46 of 60
10/5/03 at 8:03pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by lan
I didn't know you were in Europe. I'm not familiar with the connectors there.

If the difference is that small, I'd pass on that cable. You have the opportunity to return it easily so I would and possibly try another cable or just save your $ for something else in the future.
There is a difference.. In some music I hear it clearer then other. Now that I know this, I don't really think I can return the cable and live with the cheap-grade one. Even if the difference isn't that big.. I'll still know the sound could be more enjoyable and I would be missing out if didn't keep it .

Maybe I should have got a better source before I started thinking about smaller upgrades like this one. Ahwell, I'll just have to wait anther month or so before I get a decent cdp.
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post #47 of 60
10/5/03 at 9:26pm
Quote:
Originally posted by zool
Ok, I've switched cables back and forth now like 40 times in a row.. Not so sure if this is good for my amp, switching the power on and off repeatedly so many times in short periods.

However I have come to the conclusion that there indeed is a slight difference between the cables. I first tried turning the old cable around so the phase was switched the "wrong" way. I could definitively tell the difference after just listening once to both the cords.. I then turned the cable so the phase was on the "right" side, the difference was not as clear to me now.. I had to switch cables like 10 times just to be sure there was any noticeable difference at all. I always thought the sound was just a bit more open "airy" with the more expensive power cord.. but I was never really sure. Now I think I am, after testing these two cables so many times I'm pretty sure of it. It might just be in my head, but I highly doubt it. Most of the difference that I heard was in the bass, I felt like it was more "realistic" with the more expensive cord and more "flat" with the cheap-grade one.
I was really sceptic that there would be any difference at all.. So I definitively don't think I heard something I just wanted to hear. I strongly believe there is a slight difference.. Maybe not as noticeable as in switching signal cables, but enough to make me want to keep it.
How long ago do you purchse the cable in question, it was a demo, or brand new one, another thing you have 240volts there on the line, right?
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post #48 of 60
10/6/03 at 2:01am
Those who tried it and suceed believe in it. The others don't.

Well for me, I believe one thing. If the so called expensive cable act as a high value inductor. All the high frequency would be block and thus cleaner supply.

If that is so, a better and cheaper alternatives would surface.

Just my theory...
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post #49 of 60
10/6/03 at 2:17am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Sovkiller
How long ago do you purchse the cable in question, it was a demo, or brand new one, another thing you have 240volts there on the line, right?
I got the cable on friday, I don't think it was a demo.

Yes, we have 240volts here.

Where are we going with this?
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post #50 of 60
10/6/03 at 2:58am
ohhh, my god!!!
has anyone ever tried the HeadRoom Cosmic Power Supply upgrade? for me, in my system, which at the time was budget, it improved the Cosmics sound quality two fold. also, at that time, i wasn't too knowledgeable about audio, and even i noticed the huge improvment. maybe HeadRoom built the Cosmic around the power supply upgrade, kind of pushing people to upgrade because of the huge difference? i don't think so though. but yes, there is a huge difference. the bass went about twice as deep and became twice as accurate. and the treble had added clarity and smoothed itself out while also putting in more accurate detail! damn, i'll never forget the difference i noticed when i chose to buy that upgrade! i'm so glad i did. a membe named Welly Wu persuaded me to buy it! thanx again Welly

it sounds as if other amps do not benefit like the cosmic does from power supply upgrades! am i right, and why is that?
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post #51 of 60
10/6/03 at 3:06am
Zep,

I think they are talking about power cable upgrades, not power supply upgrades.
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post #52 of 60
10/6/03 at 4:53am
oh, is there a difference? my faultD i thought they were one the same. i need to get my audio terms and definitions down
regarding power cables though, i've defintely heard a difference before between high end ones and cheap ones. it is sometimes a slight difference on some songs and a big difference on other songs. i'm basing these opinions off of real life experience rather than just knowledgeable speculation, which is totally absurd. one cannot just state something (that doesn't read like an opinion but rather a fact) without at least taking five minutes to run comparisons...give me a break!

on the other hand, if anyone is shopping for the power supply upgrade that i'm talking about from headroom, then you'll know it's good and is definitely worth it!
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post #53 of 60
10/6/03 at 8:31am
Quote:
Originally posted by zool
I got the cable on friday, I don't think it was a demo.

Yes, we have 240volts here.

Where are we going with this?
Simply that maybe you don't even have time enough to burn in the cable in question, as somecables need up to 100 hours or more to burn in, and if you move the cable every half an hour taking it out and hook it on again, that means about the 20 times you said, how in a brand new cable, you could hear noticeable improvements, even thoug on a line of 240v with the double of energy than the ones we have here, sorry is some kind of weird to me, very weird I could say..... But if you assure you heard those changes, this cable will be magic after the burn in process is completed for sure, so wait and you will see a lot more.....
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post #54 of 60
10/6/03 at 10:07am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Sovkiller
Simply that maybe you don't even have time enough to burn in the cable in question, as somecables need up to 100 hours or more to burn in, and if you move the cable every half an hour taking it out and hook it on again, that means about the 20 times you said, how in a brand new cable, you could hear noticeable improvements, even thoug on a line of 240v with the double of energy than the ones we have here, sorry is some kind of weird to me, very weird I could say..... But if you assure you heard those changes, this cable will be magic after the burn in process is completed for sure, so wait and you will see a lot more.....
Well it's not like I unplug the cord every 30min, in fact I had it plugged in all friday and it was not until late saturday I started to compare both of the cords, and that didn't take more then ~40min.. Otherwise it's been plugged in the whole time (except for a couple of times this morning with different music just for my piece of mind). As I said before, I'm not even sure if this cord has been pre burnt-in or used before I got it. Not really sure how much power cords need to burn in before they start sounding good either.. But you seem to know it for a fact even though you haven't really dealt with these kind of cables before as you said in a earlier post.

Sov.. I assure you, if I really didn't hear any difference, I would not be keeping this cable.. Id rather have spent that money on a new cdp, if that was the case. Weird or not, I definitively hear a difference between the cords. I even spot it right away now when I know what to look for.

But your entitled to your opinion of course (even if it is just speculations), and I really don't give a sh*t if you believe me or not.. I don't need to prove anything to you, and it wont make me feel any better about purchasing this cord either. Your opinion isn't really of any value to me before you've actually tried this kind of cord your self and given me a valid impression.
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post #55 of 60
10/6/03 at 1:09pm
Sorry I do not want to sound that way, I know you heard a difference, what I'm trying to say is that the difference will be bigger, once the burning process is complete, it is weird though, that in that short period of time, you had heard any improvents unless the difference would be extremelly great at the end, and even without burnin in the cable, it were clearly superior, but usually the difference in power cables is very subtle also, let me point this out also, or maybe the original cable was defective....who knows???
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post #56 of 60
10/6/03 at 1:23pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Sovkiller
it is weird though, that in that short period of time, you had heard any improvents unless the difference would be extremelly great at the end,
now... that's new for me... except for speakers and in a lesser measure for headphones, the difference burning-in made was always on the tenuous side for me. I really don't think it's such a big deal. One of the power cable i heard was plugged in right after making (diy one) and impressed us. And one week later, the owner told me that really few improved.
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post #57 of 60
10/6/03 at 2:12pm
All cables need burn in, including power cables, which is the difference in burning in, a power cable, and burning in, a signal cable, then, both have electric current flowing along them...if one does not need it, that means that the other neither, or am I wrong?
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post #58 of 60
10/6/03 at 4:50pm
well, you captured the spirit of my post quite well

I'm not saying burn-in doesn't happen or is not audible. I'm saying that for ac cables as well as for IC, I never heard such a big difference from new to fully burned-in. Nothing sounding "bad" to "good". The main characteristics were always audible out of the box. The only cables who actually really needed some burn in I heard were my speakers cable based on cat5 but they burned in along with the speakers so it's a bit difficult to say what was changing...
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post #59 of 60
10/6/03 at 6:42pm
The difference after and before to burn in a cable is very subtle, I agree, but is also very subtle the improvement they offer, even being fully burned in, and even being one stock against a ultraexpensive one, let's say is a 0.5% of the improvement you could get due to tweaks...I think that he could return that cable and get a better ICs and the sytem will improve even more, than with a power cord, IMO power cords are the last tweak to make, the last touch of God on a system....
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post #60 of 60
10/7/03 at 1:48am

Burn in

Burn in time, or the need, varies with different cables and components. One can't generalize about it. Depends too much on which materials are used, manufacturing processes, residual stresses, heat cycling, and so on.

If it is dielectric that is burning in, or the metallurgy, or the mechanical setting of stranded fibers, or solder and compression junctions... there is migration of charges or even atoms, migration of domains or movement of domain walls, crystal growth, outgassing, all sorts of processes that takes time.

Nothing about it is magic, and if you have worked in manufacturing of electronic materials and hardware, you are familiar with how all-to-often physics on a microscopic scale comes to bite you in the behind while you are relying on over-simplified lumped-parameter theories, naive assumptions, trust in quality and process control and knowledge of your suppliers, and other types of wishful thinking. Nature is never as simple as we wish it to be; and when we put it under (electronic) stress, we find that out.
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