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Grado PS1000 - Page 5

post #61 of 96

Originally Posted by MrSpenkelink View Post
 

^ Thank you for your reply. So would it be fair to say that the Edition 8 is indeed a hi-fidelity headphone that is worthy of comparison with the PS1000 and the HD800? 

 

Personally, I think that would be very hard to dispute. Welcome to Head-Fi by the way. Good to have you.

post #62 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacedonianHero View Post

No issues with your two cents on where you rank the PS1000s Gu Sensi....please afford me the same respect as a fellow Head-fer who has also heard them and has formed his own opinions.

 

You prefer the D7000s to the LCD-2s. I'm sure there are MANY more who would vehemently disagree with you (myself included), but you are entitled to form you own opinions based on your actual experiences.

Yeah... you may have missed my point. I have no troubles with varied opinions and enjoy reading them. It is quite fascinating how people can walk away from the same pair of headphones with such different views in terms of subjective enjoyment and seemingly objective assessment of technical merits. And, as you have pointed out, I am often in the minority with mine but that does not make them less valid than others. I just have grown tired of people asserting personal opinion and speculation as fact and implying that their own biased assessments (often based on brief listening sessions on unfamiliar gear in distraction-filled settings) are the final word, case-closed, end of discussion take on a pair of headphones. 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by MacedonianHero View Post

The good reason is that ALL the headphones mentioned above not only COST LESS than the PS1000s, but SOUND BETTER. That's why they have a very minimal following around here. I thought we covered all that today.

 

You are speculating here are as to why the PS1000s don't get a lot of ink at Head Fi, but asserting it as fact. Reread this thread. Plenty of people feel the PS1000s are worth the money and sound better than at least some of the other top tier phones available. Some don't, but clearly there is no consensus.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by MacedonianHero View Post

 

As well, I still do not see a ground swell of support for appreciation threads for GS/PS1000s....and as I mentioned, one might surmise that there may be very good reason for that.

 

Sure, or most likely an amalgamation of reasons. Personally, if I had to guess a primary one, it would be quality control. But that would just be a guess. Along with other reasons I mentioned in my previous post, I also think people are not used to the low volumes that these headphones are designed for. The bass and peaks do not totally disappear but they are much more smoothed out. I really like low volumes when I listen and v-shaped frequency curves (like the D7000s also have) do wonders for me in that regard. I get frustrated with other high end phones as I feel I have to use them at much higher volumes than I would like in order to get the most out of them. To me the PS1000s are by far the best sounding low-volume headphones I have ever heard.

 

They definitely have a coloration, and I certainly understand it not being everyone's cup of tea and maybe something that has less appeal than others, but I think every high end phone, even those with flattish frequency responses, have a distinct coloration. Some I like, some I do not. I do think that aspects of a headphones' sound signature can be compared objectively but I take care to try not to assert my biased assessments as the truth of the matter. Frequency response charts are far from the last word as well- listening volume level and HRTF have an influence on how a frequency balance is ultimately perceived. I enjoy reading peoples experiences, comparisons, and assessments but feel so few people do it around here with any acknowledgment of personal bias. This place would be much more interesting, informative and pleasant if people went that extra mile to do so. IMHO. :-)


Edited by Gu Sensei - 11/2/10 at 9:57pm
post #63 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by priest View Post

Originally Posted by MrSpenkelink View Post
 

 

Personally, I think that would be very hard to dispute. Welcome to Head-Fi by the way. Good to have you.

Thank you.
 

post #64 of 96

I couldn't agree more with your post Gu Sensei, and with the following excerpts in particular:

 

"I have no troubles with varied opinions and enjoy reading them. It is quite fascinating how people can walk away from the same pair of headphones with such different views in terms of subjective enjoyment and seemingly objective assessment of technical merits. And, as you have pointed out, I am often in the minority with mine but that does not make them less valid than others. I just have grown tired of people asserting personal opinion and speculation as fact and implying that their own biased assessments (often based on brief listening sessions on unfamiliar gear in distraction-filled settings) are the final word, case-closed, end of discussion take on a pair of headphones."  

 

"I take care to try not to assert my biased assessments as the truth of the matter. Frequency response charts are far from the last word as well- listening volume level and HRTF have an influence on how a frequency balance is ultimately perceived. I enjoy reading peoples experiences, comparisons, and assessments but feel so few people do it around here with any acknowledgment of personal bias."

 

With regard to MacedonianHero's responses to my posts, I would just like to say that I did not seek to offend him or draw his ire. However, I do understand that some here invest more in this hobby both emotionally and financially than others. Consequently, discussions within these forum threads can become heated and sometimes unedifying.

 

I may be a relatively recent member at Head-Fi but I am not new to this site or to headphones. I have always respected MacedonianHero's opinions and the manner in which he expresses them. 


Edited by MrSpenkelink - 11/2/10 at 11:06pm
post #65 of 96

One of the elephants in the room is that the PS-1000 is priced right into a sweet spot of very good speakers.  IIRC, the new Magnepan 1.7 also costs $1,700.  You can get a used 1.6QR for around $1,000.  Used Quad ESLs are in this ballpark, as are various Klipsch horn models, the B&W Matrix 801 S3, any number of Vandersteens, and much, much else.  Pick up something like a McIntosh MC-2100 or MC-2105 ($500-$1,000) to power them, and you can stomp all over just about any headphone.

 

And if you want to go DIY, your options are even greater.  The drivers from the ProAc Response 2.5 clones were about $500.  Spent another $500 or so for the cabinets and parts.  I'm running them off an old Conrad-Johnson tube amp that cost about $700.  They obliterate the PS-1000 for roughly the same price, exclusive of sweat equity.  The PS-1000's bass is nothing compared to a good 6.5" driver in a nicely tuned and ported cabinet.

 

Everyone repeats the "headphones are cheaper" mantra here, but that is just not true.  My opinion is that the headphone manufacturers made a mistake in crossing the $1,000 threshold.  $1,000 is the line where you can get excellent used speakers or roll a nice pair for yourself.

 

The manufacturers see this segment growing and are trying to capitalize they see a number of old headphones going for.  The difference is that those headphones are collectibles with a limited supply.  Asking $1,700 for something that is not collectible or limited is a terrible business decision.  There are less expensive options that provide a better listening experience.

 

If anyone thinks my rant is squarely at the PS-1000, I want to point out that I think all headphones over $1,000 are in dangerous territory.  As much as I love the HD-800, the only reason I bought it was because I had too many headphones at the time and thought it better to sell them off and roll them into one very good headphone.  Out went the HD-600, HD-650, DT880, RS-1, K-501, and, thankfully, the loathsome K-701.  It was a good choice, since the HD-800 gets the bulk of my headphone listening.

 

The pricing is why I've mostly dropped out of the headphone arms race.  I used to keep up with the top models, but when the price war escalated, I turned towards speakers.  The $1,700 that could have bought a PS-1000 was added to another $100 to buy the Linkwitz Orion drivers.  Another $650 went for a pair of Quad ESL-63s.  I'll pick up custom IEMs sooner or later (I sure like the JH13), but don't think I'll ever drop $1,700 on headphones, let alone $3,000 or whatever the market brings.

 

On the other hand, if the manufacturers calm down and introduce some solid offerings from $300-$600 or so, I might just pick up a pair.

post #66 of 96

Well, just to chime in here again, one theme I read here is that the PS1Ks are peaky in the highs. I do not hear this. I own PS1Ks, HD800s and T1s and, through my RP010B amp, feel the PS1Ks have less prominent highs than

the others. In fact, that is one of the best things about them. The musical elements that naturally have high frequencies sound nicely shaped and sized and not like artificial pinpoints at all.

There is a very enjoyable silky flow to the highs.

 

Now, I have to admit, I had to try some different power cords on my cd player to get the highs right, and sometime the highs were exaggerated with some

power cords that were tipped up, but I heard the same affect on the highs on the other phones.

 

I ended up with a TelWire cord on my CDP, but a TG 688 was also good. With the 688 cord, I felt that the Grados were actually too suppressed. A TG SLVR made them a bit too bright, but only on some CDs.

 

So, no, the PS1Ks are not Senn 650s, which always have sounded dark to me, but they are also not RS1s, which seem too jazzed up and piercing to me.

(By the way, if anyone is really bothered by high frequencies but still wants good resolution, try Rudi's Chromas.)

 

post #67 of 96

Quote:

Originally Posted by rgs9200m View Post

... on my cd player... 


What is your source?

post #68 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gu Sensei View Post
I enjoy reading peoples experiences, comparisons, and assessments but feel so few people do it around here with any acknowledgment of personal bias. This place would be much more interesting, informative and pleasant if people went that extra mile to do so. IMHO. :-)

 

Isn't that intuitively understood? Everything here is about personal opinions and thoughts. IMHO...that is.

 

Beauty as they say is in the eye of the beholder.

 

BTW, I have re-read this entire thread a few times and only find a few beholders who find the beauty of the PS1000s. Here are some numbers:

 

LCD-2 Thread: 6280 Posts and 240 652 Views

T1 Thread: 3911 Posts and 256 381 Views

Ed. 10 Thread: 282 Posts and 9378 Views (and these just released and have not made it to North American shores)

Pro900 Thread: 838 Posts and 67 743 Views

HD650 Thread: 1742 Posts and 14165 Views

 

PS1000 Appreciation Thread: 1 Reply and 14 Views (just started yesterday; even though these headphones have been out for over a year)

 

These are the numbers that I see when I made my comments on the observed lack of support for these headphones. To also note, the PS1000s were released quite some time ago; especially when compared to the first 3 in my list. I have heard them on 3 or 4 occasions with some very good amps for good amounts of time and found they were not to my liking every time. I am not stating fact here...just my experiences.

 

That's great that you and others enjoy them and they do sound quite good for low level listening.


Edited by MacedonianHero - 11/3/10 at 7:07am
post #69 of 96

My source is an EMM CDSA-SE (current metal-drawer version).

post #70 of 96

But Erik, my shoulders get SO tired holding up the Maggies and an amp.  What should I do?
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Erik View Post

One of the elephants in the room is that the PS-1000 is priced right into a sweet spot of very good speakers.  IIRC, the new Magnepan 1.7 also costs $1,700.  You can get a used 1.6QR for around $1,000.  Used Quad ESLs are in this ballpark, as are various Klipsch horn models, the B&W Matrix 801 S3, any number of Vandersteens, and much, much else.  Pick up something like a McIntosh MC-2100 or MC-2105 ($500-$1,000) to power them, and you can stomp all over just about any headphone.

 

 

post #71 of 96

Erik made some veru outstanding comments regarding the pricing of these headphones and I owning two under 1K paid for each also thinks its insane and I would not consider paying any more than I have. I have two amps but my CSP-2 will be put into my main system to power my Maggie's. I have yet to hear any headphone better the sound stage and performance of a full range speaker system and yes for 1700.00 you can buy a pretty amazing full range speaker new and a truly reference speaker used. You can also build a pretty good 2 channel system for that. When I started here a couple of years ago there we not many insane cans now there is one a week coming out. As a music lover there comes a time when you need to start just enjoying your system and really decide best on how to achieve at least for me is get the recording as close to live as can be done. Great post Erik and very very valid points.

post #72 of 96

Yep, those super expensive HPS are just silly, all of them, that is right. I have heared most of those beasts in question, even a O2 or a HD800 is just another headphone after all. But IMO the price tag for the PS1K is waaay more silly than the price tag for a T1.

 

For the record: For me personally, a PS1000 would get much more listening time than a T1 or HD800 though, but that is not the point. I also never would have bought my dear MS Pro if the strong Euro hadn't supported this so effectively in late 2008.

post #73 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by bbophead View Post

But Erik, my shoulders get SO tired holding up the Maggies and an amp.  What should I do?
 



biggrin.gif

Buy a reasonably priced headphone and amp. I would be happy with a HD-600 and a Dynalo. That combination is a lot better than some will admit and betters some more expensive hardware.

A used pair and a little DIY will get you both for around $350. That's genuine value.
post #74 of 96

Frank it is true re: headphone and speakers arguement, however, this being head-fi is I thought about headphones. If someone is really interested in speakers system, they could go to a hifi forum instead....

post #75 of 96


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Erik View Post

One of the elephants in the room is that the PS-1000 is priced right into a sweet spot of very good speakers....


I don't think it is fair to compare full price new headphones to second hand or DIY speakers. In fact, it's hard to compare them, full stop. Proac Response 2.5 were not sold for $500+$500. It was $4500. Their next gen model D25 costs $6000 a pair. You had a steal on the Quad, I would expect to pay more than $650 on a pair of ESL63s in good working order( I used to run my system through some ESL57). I think if you compare orange to orange, headphones are overall cheaper than speakers. You can probably get the best in production headphonesfor between $1000 to $2500 but that kind of money will put you in budget/mid- price level when it comes to new speakers.

I do agree though, that pricing has a lot to do with the apparent lack of interest in PS1000. For argument's sick, let's  pretend HD800, T1, LCD2, PS1000 and Ed8 are all equal in sound quality with different sound signature. Why do I want to pay 40% more for one of them?

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