For the over-21 crowd - any wine lovers out there? - Page 2

Sound advice, Bmac - just noticed your post after I just wrote the below I think we're on the same track here...

I was in New Zealand last January (not long enough!), and just on the North Island (I know, I know) - after spending two and half weeks in Oz (Australia). While the Tasmania pinot noir is okay, the NZ pinots are really good, as is, of course, the sauvignon blanc. In fact, there's some pretty good olive oil down there as well.

A really good sparkling wine, if you can find it (it runs about 14 dollars US a bottle here in NYC) is either Cremant de Bourgogne or Cremant d'Alsace, particularly the rose, but the whites are super as well. One of the best deals going. I'm not a big Italian wine expert, but I believe Gavi is nice too (it's a white, but I believe it's sparkling - but correct me if I'm wrong). Here in the US, an up and coming sparkling wine region is New Mexico (believe it or not).

For reds, some of the best cabernet sauvignons in the US are from the Walla Walla region in Washington State (and darn hard to find back east) - Oregon has a very nice pinot noir too, but it's a little bit overpriced. A couple of "sweetish" but still pretty well balanced and good wines, at good prices, are the Francis Coppola ([I]that[I] Coppola) pinot, and the Macmurray Ranch ([I]that[I] Macmurray) - both around 14-15 dollars, a bottle. A pleasant Oregon pinot that's not too too overpriced would be Willamette Vineyards - about 22 dollars if you look around a bit.

I'm not a big fan of Aussie wines, but there are some great bargains out of Chile, particularly in the reds. I'm also not a big Argentine wine fan, but there are some pretty good Malbec (reds) out of there too. One grower - Catena - is really good out of Argentina.

German wines that we have in the US are pretty much all excellent - particularly the sweeter Rieslings (I was never a big fan of the dry rieslings). Austrian wines are really world class too (the whites). They can be pricey, but there's some good ones around 15 to 17 dollars worth trying out.

Like the Italian wines, I don't know much about Spanish wines either, even though, I believe, Spain is the world's largest producer of wine.

Well, the list goes on and on - lots of countries are getting better wine-wise. My thoughts are that you can get some really good wines, red or white, for 20 dollars or under, and, in the case of Chilean wines, even under ten dollars (the cabernets). And, like our headphone hobby, the price can shoot up sky high from there, sometimes, but not always, with a corresponding improvement in quality, and, like headphone gear, the improvement in quality eventually becomes more and more incremental.

Of course, being from NYC, all this advice is directed at those 21 and older

Ice wine, when done right, is absolutely fantastic. A good relatively cheap ice wine might be Selak, from New Zealand, or Peter Lehmann, from Australia. I just had one from Washington State - I think Chateau St. Michelle, which is really a mass producer. Usually you'll find them by the half bottle for anywhere from 10 to 20 dollars. I don't have any experience with the German Eisweins - they're way too expensive for me, or the Alsatian ones (ditto). I know that the Canadians market a Niagara ice wine (forgot the name of the producer) very widely - you can find it at almost any major international airport - typically it's made from a riesling or one of the "foxy" or east coast grapes. I think they're overpriced (sorry Canadian friends!)

When you get a good ice wine, you get a great sweet-tart (real professional description, eh?) mix, and you'll find that the two are in balance. That is, they'll have a bit of backbone to them (AKA structure). I like them a little bit young, so that they are petillant, or have just a little bit of zing (slight carbonated touch to them - prickly mouth feel). A good ice wine shouldn't, in my opinion, be syrupy - structure and balance is everything. I find that even folks who would never go near a sweet wine normally (that includes me) generally really like the ice wines that are done right.

But even the late harvest wines and good rieslings or gewurztraminers that are "sweet" can be absolutely delicious if done correctly. While I don't eat sweets, they go quite well with a sweet desert. The more everyday German, Alsatian, and other sweet wines really go well, also, with spicy foods (such as Chinese foods) - as long as the food is not so spicy as to overwhelm the wine.

Again, I recommend trying a nice Selaks from New Zealand or a Peter Lehmann from Australia if you've never tried an ice wine before, and I think you'll be quite pleased, and won't have to spend a fortune to boot.

PS - Jilgil - you really have to drive a little bit farther north and visit Navarro Vineyards up in Mendocino county. They're located in a beautiful area, they're very generous with their tastings (none of the typical Napa/Sonoma 20 dollar charge for a tasting or whatever), and they have a nice picnic area as well. You can try as much as you like, with refills, no hassles. There's a couple of other nice vineyards nearby, such as Greenwood Ridge and Brutacao Cellars, but Navarro is by far my favorite. They are famous for their Gewurztraminer and Riesling - and while you can find some in the stores in California, their best stuff is sold right on the spot. (We back East have to order it from them directly , as they really don't sell much of their stuff back here)...

You're probably thinking of Grand Wines by the 30th Avenue subway stop - it's actually not too bad a place. There are a couple of nice wine shops that sometimes have some decent deals in Manhattan; I'm thinking of "Crush" wines on E. 57th Street between (I believe) 2nd and 3rd Avenues. A lot of their stuff is not cheap, but they always seem to have some good wines around the 13-15 dollar range as well. They seem pretty knowledgable, and are not snobbish (at least in my experience).

For tastings, Union Square Wines probably can't be beat - they usually have really big tastings on Saturdays, but it can be pretty crowded there, as everyone seems to love free wine They're on 4th Avenue and around East 13th Street. Further down is Astor Place wines - I think they're on 3rd Avenue, around 6th or 7th Street, but I may be wrong.

Another place that's pretty nice, but can be a bit snooty, is Chamber Street wines - they're down on Chambers and I think around W. Broadway or so. Sometimes they have some decent closeouts.

The famous one in Manhattan is Sherry-Lehmann. They have a nice layout, and sometimes have tastings there too. Prices can be a little bit higher than Grand in Astoria, but the selection is pretty broad too.

Speaking of Grand, they have a lot of obscure wines from Croatia, Slovenia, and places like that (and of course Greece). It really isn't bad if you're in the Astoria area.

This is all from someone who barely drinks anymore

Cheers!

Blaze - I think I've sampled one or two of the mid-range Croatian/Slovenian (typically red) wines maybe during one of Grand's Friday night little (they may offer samples from two wines or so) tastings, but to be honest, they didn't leave a real lasting memory. I may have tried one or two of their whites, but those, I would probably say, would be best to avoid.

As for the reds, I won't say they were bad (I noticed that Grand sells some upscale Croatian and Bulgarian wines, in the 35-50 dollar zone, and I would be curious one day to try a sip or two to see if they're worth it.) It's always fun to find an obscure (for me) region, because often, that's where the real bargains are. The problem is that Astoria has a lot of residents from Croatia, etc., so the wines may just be priced based on that (the nostalgia factor or whatever, or perceived quality, or even different tastes -and not necessarily on quality. That said, a couple (the pricier ones) do look interesting. My guess is that the more expensive ones would be somewhat similar to a Rhone Valley wine - a bit heavier, but, if done right (and I know very little about how they're vinifying wines in Croatia), they might be really good. The key is vinification - how is the wine actually made. Like headphone gear (usually!), I personally wouldn't take a chance paying that much though without first tasting them. If I ever get a chance to try one of the upscale Croatian/Slovenians, I'll post the results.

One very good wine merchant I've had experience with is JJ Buckley out of the SF Bay area. They can often beat NYC prices significantly, and, in my experience, are very prompt with deliveries, and reasonable with shipping charges. By the way, Navarro Vineyards out of Mendocino county is currently running a $1 shipping promotion, and, as I mentioned before, I think they're one of my very favorite wineries in the United States.