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Next step amplifier/DAC

post #1 of 14
11/5/09 at 3:24am
Thread Starter 
I've recently started breaking into audio DIY with a CMoy, and from there the Mini^3 (sounds great on a pair of RE0 IEMs too I think). Currently I'm trying to work out the logistics of the iMod as well (ended up breaking one of the leads off of my dock connector because, well, I'm a bit of a clutz

From here I'm looking into a pair of either Beyerdynamic BT880's or Sennheiser HD650's as part of a desktop setup. I figured its probably worth going ahead and getting an amplifier and DAC before sinking money into a pair of nice headphones so I can get all the bugs worked out.

I'm used to the IC world (haven't really broken into tubes), and I've seen quite a few designs that interest me. The MilletMax looks pretty cool I believe, as does the SOHA II, but I've also been looking into the discrete world with the AMB Beta series and Tangent's PPA. AMB's beta series (particularly the b-24) looks quite interesting, but I'm wondering if those guys are a bit beyond my capabilities.

I'd kind of like to stay under $250 for a desktop headphone amp. Any suggestions on that front?

I've also looked into a bunch of DACs, Bantam, Alien, Jambo's, gamma-2, and the Opus. My only concerns about those last two is integrating the USB interface into the I2S inputs (if this is something even beyond trivial).

Some I'm hoping to get some advice from you experts on which path would be a good way to go.

Thanks
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post #2 of 14
11/5/09 at 6:36am
The two builds you have completed are both battery operated. Therefore my advice would be to gain knowledge and experience with live mains. Learning about safety with live voltages is not only good safe practice - it may save your life.
If you jump right into a complex build straight off the bat, you will be compromising from your lack of experience. Learn on something that's simple and cheap.
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post #3 of 14
11/5/09 at 6:54am
If you want to go tubes, as a "next step" you can look into the CTH or SMMH (or even the Max). For solid state the PPAv2 or M3 are good. The Beta may be too much of a jump but you'd probably be fine. Not many of those are line voltage, simply because line voltage amps tend to be higher up there in complexity than most of my recommendations. Feel free to go higher if you feel you're up to it.

For DACs the Bantam (evolution of the Alien) or Grub is a good start, or jump straight into the Gamma.
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post #4 of 14
11/5/09 at 7:15am
Thread Starter 
@john: never a bad idea to review safety I know how "pleasant" 120VAC is... Probably a good plan to mess around with some low level stuff first

@juaquin: would you recommend going to tube or staying in the solid-state realm for stuff like rock and techno? I'm still a bit unclear on the advantages of each.

Thanks guys.
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post #5 of 14
11/5/09 at 11:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mewrei View Post
My only concerns about those last two is integrating the USB interface into the I2S inputs (if this is something even beyond trivial).
Not sure what you mean by this statement? The Y2 is designed to be mated with a Y1, the Y1 provides the USB -> I2S. You could use the Y2 without the Y1 is you have a source that provides I2S.

As for your amps, have you looked at the M3? It is pretty close in design to PPA. The Beta22 is a much more expensive and complex build than the other and would be way beyond your $250 price point, heck the PSU would blow that budget.

Also keep the PSU requirements in mind. The M3 and PPA can be powered by a single supply power brick which going this route reduces the requirement of having to deal with mains voltage. But they can be improved by building a "better" supply like the Sigma11.

I am currently working on an M3 with Sigma11 and have it operational and it sounds great, still need to case it. Waiting on my Par-metal case to arrive (keep fingers crossed )
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post #6 of 14
11/5/09 at 2:11pm
CKKIII, PPA, MMM, MHM, CTH, SOHA, B22..... plenty of options/acronyms.
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post #7 of 14
11/5/09 at 11:22pm
Thread Starter 
Yeah I read in closer to the y1 and y2 and saw that the y2 is a module for the y1.

At this point I'm kind of in agreement with you about the M3. I have the Mini3 for a portable unit and I like it a lot. M3 + Sigma-11 sound good. Either that or a SSMH.
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post #8 of 14
11/5/09 at 11:54pm
with your experience you have lots of options, but i would stay away from high voltage tube amps for your first AC powered build. my first DIY projects were a CMOY and a Mini3 too.

an M3 will cost a bit over $250 - a separate chassis and more complex PS add to the cost. a CK2III will set you back about $150. both are excellent amps and preference would come down to your ears and HPs. expect to pay about %20 of total cost on a pre-fab anodized aluminum enclosure from Hammond or Par-Metal. you can go cheaper with the "plain" aluminum Hammond enclosures - nice retro look, or you can spice it up with some hammered spray paint - or DIY your own.
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post #9 of 14
11/6/09 at 1:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mewrei View Post
Some I'm hoping to get some advice from you experts on which path would be a good way to go.

Thanks
I'm not an expert, but I've built the majority of the common headphone audio projects. My 2¢ recommendation for a next project = γ1 dac. It's the start off point for a γ2 build and will be usable when/if you upgrade. It is a step up the ladder from an alien or bantam dac. It is a great match with a mini3. And it even sounds pretty good used as a stand alone headphone source when used with efficient phones.
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post #10 of 14
11/6/09 at 1:42am
If you're going to be listening to a lot of electronic/techno you're probably going to want to do solid-state. Tubes have a great warm sound, but it doesn't mix with the precision of electronic. Just comes out muddled, IMO. Rock sounds fine through tubes or solid-state.
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post #11 of 14
11/6/09 at 2:09am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bada bing View Post
I'm not an expert, but I've built the majority of the common headphone audio projects. My 2¢ recommendation for a next project = γ1 dac. It's the start off point for a γ2 build and will be usable when/if you upgrade. It is a step up the ladder from an alien or bantam dac. It is a great match with a mini3. And it even sounds pretty good used as a stand alone headphone source when used with efficient phones.
yes, the y-1 is a nice DAC (and a fun build). the CK2III and y-1 is an excellent pairing for driving K601/K271/DT990-600ohm.
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post #12 of 14
11/6/09 at 2:22am
Thread Starter 
Sounds like solid-state is the way to go then. Might get an SSMH or a MilletMAX at some point just in the future just for point comparison (and for the fun of the build).

What are some of the characteristics of the CK2III versus the M^3? Are there many discernible traits of one versus the other? I'm thinking the M^3 because of its obscenely low THD rating.

And what configuration should I use for the Y1? Just go for the Full++?
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post #13 of 14
11/6/09 at 10:04am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mewrei View Post
Sounds like solid-state is the way to go then. Might get an SSMH or a MilletMAX at some point just in the future just for point comparison (and for the fun of the build).

What are some of the characteristics of the CK2III versus the M^3? Are there many discernible traits of one versus the other? I'm thinking the M^3 because of its obscenely low THD rating.

And what configuration should I use for the Y1? Just go for the Full++?
Can not answer the first question. As for the second one the only difference between the options for a y1 is what type of connections you need. So determine what you need.
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post #14 of 14
11/6/09 at 12:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mewrei View Post
Sounds like solid-state is the way to go then. Might get an SSMH or a MilletMAX at some point just in the future just for point comparison (and for the fun of the build).

What are some of the characteristics of the CK2III versus the M^3? Are there many discernible traits of one versus the other? I'm thinking the M^3 because of its obscenely low THD rating.

And what configuration should I use for the Y1? Just go for the Full++?
i'll refrain from sweeping anthropomorphic adjectives, but i'd say that the M3 is a bit more detailed, warmer, darker, and bass is more present and dynamic. the CK2III is more mids-centric, but very balanced from top to bottom. i really like both of them.
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