Head-Fi.org › Forums › Summit-Fi (High-End Audio) › High-end Audio Forum › WHAT GIVES THE MOST BANG FOR THE BUCK WITH AN 007 SYSTEM, A SUPERAMP OR A BETTER DAC?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

WHAT GIVES THE MOST BANG FOR THE BUCK WITH AN 007 SYSTEM, A SUPERAMP OR A BETTER DAC?

post #1 of 17
Thread Starter 
There is much discussion among the Stax afficionados, about super amps such as the BHSE as the way to get the most from top phones such as the 007. Like most who have heard it, I was much impressed by the BHSE I heard at the last Canjam. I was able to hear what it sounded like both with my 007A and Sigma/404 and immediately developed an itch to get one. Alas with the wife factor, not to mention 2 kids soon going to college, a $5,000 amp is not coming my way soon unless climate change causes it to rain money in my neighborhood.

However I was able to scratch together the money for a new (well actually used) Musical Fidelity XDAC V3 and was very surprised at just how much it improved my 717/007A set-up. I had not expected this level of improvement and am beginning to wonder whether what I liked so much about the BHSE may possibly have been a better DAC/CD player in the BHSE system.

My original plan was to use the XDAC with my second best system, a Sigma/404 with a SRM1Mk2 amp and a modestly priced and aging Sherwood Newcastle CD player. However when I inserted the XDAC into this set-up I realized this would not work because the set-up left my 717/007 set-up sounding inferior. That system used a CEC belt drive transport and an earlier Musical Fidelity A3-24 DAC. So now the XDAC sits with the 717/007A and the A3-24 with the SRM1Mk2/Sigma/404 to allow the 007 system keep its performance edge.

The XDAC V3 is a fairly small item, much smaller than the A3-24 and runs off a 500 ma walwart. Still it is a big improvement over the A3-24, more sweet sounding and punchy and with a well defined stereo image. Supposedly it runs better with an upgraded (XPSUV3) power supply, but the walwart was not obiously deficient. It helps to plug the walwart in the right way, the plug is not polarized and one direction works better than the other. You can also get this right with an electric field sensor such as the Elkind I use which buzzes when it detects a field. The best result will be obtained with the plug orientation which gives the least buzzing.

I have gone through several generations of DAC's. There appears to be a continuing upgrade of the better DAC's such that you will probably notice a difference of units more than about 5 years old. I am running one or more generations behnd even now. Musical Fidelity itself has several other more recent and more expensive units.

At any rate my experience is that there is good bang for the buck in upgrading these digital processing units and my itch to get the BHSE is subsiding.
post #2 of 17
I think once the eXStata is finalised, it will seriously upset the balance of things towards an amp, but for detail resolution, I think a DAC is much more important with Stax than with dynamic cans. With O2s, the question is whether you like the tonal balance with what you have now, and in what area you wish to improve the SQ.
post #3 of 17
The O2/717 combo can take all the source you can trow at it! I have a $25K vinyl rig dedicated to mine and even that doesn't push the systems limits of resolution. I also have cables and a power cord on the 717 that retail for more than the amp did new and it can easily take advantage of those too. STAX built an amazing little rig!

My 717 is slightly hotrodded with the cheap connectors and switches on the back removed/replaced and the Mogami input wiring replaced which really upped the performance and resolution. I can only imagine how it would sound with a good capacitor upgrade in both the audio stage and the power supply stage.

I have heard what this does for an SRM-001 so I can only imagine!
post #4 of 17
Personally, my opinion is that once you get to a certain stage with amps, you're simply dotting the i's (not even crossing the t's I'd say) as far as what you actually hear. The felt differences between amp preferences beyond that point tend to be how they colour the sound. And this is also true I'd say for the O2's.


So in this situation I'd blow it on DACs.


But also to me also personally, the O2 itself, regardless of amping and source, is a little too much like a polished HD650. i.e. While it is an improvement it's not a vast difference... in that with the presentation of the O2 I have the nagging feeling that I should just be happy with the HD650 given the level of improvement on offer. And if I were to actually look for improvements, I'd be saving my pennies for a change of headphone. IMO and all that...
post #5 of 17
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dinan View Post
My 717 is slightly hotrodded with the cheap connectors and switches on the back removed/replaced and the Mogami input wiring replaced which really upped the performance and resolution. I can only imagine how it would sound with a good capacitor upgrade in both the audio stage and the power supply stage.

I have heard what this does for an SRM-001 so I can only imagine!
Seems like we need a thread on moding the 717.
post #6 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by bangraman View Post
Personally, my opinion is that once you get to a certain stage with amps, you're simply dotting the i's (not even crossing the t's I'd say) as far as what you actually hear.
Which amps have you heard with the O2?
post #7 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deadneddz View Post
Which amps have you heard with the O2?
717, 007t / II, HEV90. Some Gilmore thing as well a while back.
post #8 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by edstrelow View Post
Seems like we need a thread on moding the 717.
Yes we do!
post #9 of 17
Thread Starter 
I just got the upgraded power supply for the XDAC V3, which is the XPSU V3.
It's built just like the XDAC but weighs 2-3 times as much. It adds even more refinement, better controlled bass, blacker quiet passages, and just a lot of musical details. The total package of DAC and PSU was about $550.00 shipped, in other words about 1/10 of the price of a BHSE.

I notice that as the source gets better, the Sigma/404 increasingly challenges the 007A. The 007A has better frequency extension at top and bottom ends, more detail and a more precise stereo image, but the Sigma/404 has a more realistic, less in-the-head presentation. As its definition is improved with a better source, it becomes a remarkable listening experience, probably unlike anything else other than the low bias and pro Sigmas. I would describe the 007 by comparison, as a great monitor phone, but unlike some monitors, also very listenable.

I was really hearing the S/404 advantage with a new Hyperion recording of a Handel Te Deum by the choir of Trinity College University of Cambridge. The S/404 recreates a listening hall much more so than the 007. Now I have never heard this choir in its home base, the Chapel at Trinity College,



which is also their normal recording venue, so I can't say for sure that the S/404 recreates the exact Chapel, sound, but one certainly hears much more of a chapel quality with the S/404 than the 007. ( Those I have spoken with who have heard the choir in its home, speak with awe about the experience.)

However, I did hear them perform recently in our own little town when the local volunteer concert association, of which I am treasurer, brought them in to perform in one of our better church auditoriums. So I had a good reference for the basic sound of this group whch toured with pretty much the same members as in the Handel recording, although without the period orchestra. It was remarkable to see even the more elderly members of the audience giving a standing ovation while holding onto walkers and canes, applauding and standing in respect until the last choristor left the stage. Since the oldest of the singers was probably only 25, it was nice to see the older generation showing such respect for this young group.

BTW you may also get this group to perform in your town, if they happen to be touring nearby. If you can make arrangements for putting up the choristors, as we did to cut costs, you can get them for about the price of a BHSE. Kind of puts things in perspective.
post #10 of 17
Which amp gives the most bang for the bang with the O2 MK I?
post #11 of 17
I think that is going to be the eXStata. Sure it probably won't deliver like the alternatives but the price is what sets it apart.
post #12 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emooze View Post
I think that is going to be the eXStata. Sure it probably won't deliver like the alternatives but the price is what sets it apart.
A KGSS is also cheap to build as long as you focus on keeping the prices down, although I'll interested to see the end comparison. Yes the parts are all easy* to obtain before anyone asks.

*As in a bit of searching. not as in just plug the bom into mouser.*
post #13 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emooze View Post
I think that is going to be the eXStata. Sure it probably won't deliver like the alternatives but the price is what sets it apart.
I'm sure the eXStata is going to bring an entirely new level of affordability to the O2's but I am still not convinced that it is a replacement for the 717. Even the the unquestionably awesome KGSS has proven to be an alternative with many people still preferring the 717. Time will tell and I look forward to firing it out against a 717 when the time comes.

How about we just call a BHSE good bang for the buck?
post #14 of 17
What are the prices for the 717 and the KGSS then?
post #15 of 17
The KGSS is $2295 from headamp.com. A second-hand 717 would be somewhere around $800-1000. Usually the O2/717 combo can be found in Japan for <$2000.

By the way GreenLeo, can you shorten your signature please, it's insanely long, especially as a lot of your posts are only a single line.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: High-end Audio Forum
Head-Fi.org › Forums › Summit-Fi (High-End Audio) › High-end Audio Forum › WHAT GIVES THE MOST BANG FOR THE BUCK WITH AN 007 SYSTEM, A SUPERAMP OR A BETTER DAC?