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Audeze LCD-2 Orthos - Page 139  

post #2071 of 18459

Well ok, it's pretty simple if you are about to claim that the "can effect" means soul then yup, Grados has a lot of that stuff called soul. They remind me the sound of old KOSS TD-85 but with better driver.


Edited by theppd - 6/27/10 at 2:58am
post #2072 of 18459

another test is the tape recorder hiss test.I took for that test Hifiman LE,PS-1000 and LCD.This test shows clearly the differences.

An old Revox A77 tape recorder with tape hiss and machine hum .

Grado PS-1000 tape hiss is very clear and audible but you hardly get the machine hum

LCD-2 tape hiss is in so low floor that the hum takes over and is more audible than hiss

LE- the tape hiss is almost non audible but the hum is between Grado and LCD.

post #2073 of 18459
Quote:
Originally Posted by theppd View Post

Well ok, it's pretty simple if you are about to claim that the "can effect" means soul then yup, Grados has a lot of that stuff called soul. They remind me the sound of old KOSS TD-85 but with better driver.



Purity and soul are different.Purity is in the can soul outside the can

post #2074 of 18459

...and another test.Perceiving apparatus on human beeings is very complex but you can remove a little bit imagination when picture is added in a performance.Yes you can run the LCD out of i pod as well as Grado PS.If sombody has on hand both phones can make the following test.

download the following performance on high resolution

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFONNkZ4v1A

 

check out the lady how she treats the guitar.So how much information you get from this live performance and how much information is on that guitar.No question about it the PS gives subtle resonances, you hear clearly the body of the guitar ,every finger tipp and every string on that guitar is audible-this is almost real life.When i put the LCD on my head and tune my attention to this performance i miss the ultimate live airiness i miss the ultimate resonance from the guitar although everything is "there" with LCD but not in that real life way as PS does it.

post #2075 of 18459



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by thinker View Post

...and another test.Perceiving apparatus on human beeings is very complex but you can remove a little bit imagination when picture is added in a performance.Yes you can run the LCD out of i pod as well as Grado PS.If sombody has on hand both phones can make the following test.

download the following performance on high resolution

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFONNkZ4v1A

 

check out the lady how she treats the guitar.So how much information you get from this live performance and how much information is on that guitar.No question about it the PS gives subtle resonances, you hear clearly the body of the guitar ,every finger tipp and every string on that guitar is audible-this is almost real life.When i put the LCD on my head and tune my attention to this performance i miss the ultimate live airiness i miss the ultimate resonance from the guitar although everything is "there" with LCD but not in that real life way as PS does it.


Your into "Hi-Fi" and that's fine. If a small recording station was set-up in your living area, and a solo Gutarist was asked to perform while being recorded, upon playback which phone would be natural and actual? Or which phone would emphasize and exaggerate (however pleasurable) the performance? Ask yourself those questions!

 

I found the PS colored and not to my liking. It does some things with artificial richness that can be beguiling, to be sure. But, it ain't the real deal! A bump in the presence region can be enjoyable and win many friends, but I hear the deviation from actual and I find it artificial. Your opinion is valid for you, not for me.
 


Edited by achristilaw - 6/27/10 at 6:08am
post #2076 of 18459



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dallan View Post



Huh?  Oh that woke me up in my constant reading of this thread.  Can't wait to hear the LCD-2s at a meet and spend more money.  But that is not what woke me.  It was the part about having to listen at higher levels to get balance from the 800s. That is not my experience.  I listen at pretty low levels normally and I find the 800s to have great balance.  Hmmm.  Ringing?   Guess we all hear things differently, hopefully the LCD-2s will be different enough that i won't like them then i won't be forced to buy them.

 

Turn those things down trying to get balance out of em will ya, your waking the baby!



I never heard a great balance at low levels. The Audez'e is KING of low-level playback! One persons low-level might cause bleeding in others however......I never like loud for loudness sake, as I listen to mostly Acoustic and maintain what I feel are natural levels...

 

One difference perhaps you don't listen to the "Classics" perhaps? Your using tubes (triodes?) only for the 800 and could slog your way through! Tubes never fleshed the 800 out for me....You like the presence depression?

 

DON'T listen to the Audez'e! You'll throw rocks at the 800, as it's faster yet more relaxed and eazzzzy! Like a cramp releasing...you have to reach out and experience this for sure.


Edited by achristilaw - 6/27/10 at 1:52pm
post #2077 of 18459

It's a Goldilocks and three Bears analogy for me. The PS-1000 is to warm, the 800 to fatiguing and left me cold (this was evident in direct comparison with the LCD-2), and the Audez'e is just right. Everyone has different expectations and delights..if not, we wouldn't have near as many headphone offerings. My opinion doesn't and shouldn't match yours because my play-back priorities do not. We all have to use our "heads" in this Hobby, but our heart tells us make for different Audio destinations.

 

Do our tastes change over time? Or does more and continued exposure to premium gear alter our tastes?


Edited by achristilaw - 6/27/10 at 7:30am
post #2078 of 18459
Quote:
Originally Posted by thinker View PostOr a recording where many mics are used on singers for instance Meredith Monk works ,there are many singers but sombody only whispers on the backstage,its clear with the PS but on LCD you hardly get it.Or on a recording where a singer between the words is licking hes lips its clear with PS but i dont get the last info of that licking with LCD etc.


These examples and your tape hiss example may point to something else entirely, which is that the treble on the PS is too exaggerated. Maybe you're not supposed to hear those hisses and whispers and lip smacks so prominently, and the PS is merely highlighting that frequency range. For example, the D7000 has unnaturally sharp treble and it highlights things that might sound like extra detail, but they are in fact simply rendered out of proportion with the rest of the frequency ranges. This can be very problematic on material with lots of treble energy. For example, the song "William, It's Really Nothing" by The Smiths has so much treble energy due to the hi-hat, strumming guitar, tambourine, and whatever else might be going on, and on the D7000, those treble elements become a splashy and tinny/shrill mess. On more neutral headphones, they sound perfectly normal and natural, where each of the instruments are clearly separated and coherent.

post #2079 of 18459
Quote:
Originally Posted by thinker View Post

...and another test.Perceiving apparatus on human beeings is very complex but you can remove a little bit imagination when picture is added in a performance.Yes you can run the LCD out of i pod as well as Grado PS.If sombody has on hand both phones can make the following test.

download the following performance on high resolution

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFONNkZ4v1A

 

check out the lady how she treats the guitar.So how much information you get from this live performance and how much information is on that guitar.No question about it the PS gives subtle resonances, you hear clearly the body of the guitar ,every finger tipp and every string on that guitar is audible-this is almost real life.When i put the LCD on my head and tune my attention to this performance i miss the ultimate live airiness i miss the ultimate resonance from the guitar although everything is "there" with LCD but not in that real life way as PS does it.


I think you should stick with the Grado.  Clearly it works for you and brings you the most enjoyment.  That's what this hobby is all about!

 

Happy Listening!  

 

k

post #2080 of 18459
Quote:
Originally Posted by kwkarth View Post




I think you should stick with the Grado.  Clearly it works for you and brings you the most enjoyment.  That's what this hobby is all about!

 

Happy Listening!  

 

k



Thanks for advice but i dont agree with your recommendations.The LCD gives to most complete presentation of any headphone that i have heard and everyone who is serious about headphones should own the LCD.Of course this thread is here to make some comments on headphones and as i said before the difference in some small area between LCD and PS dont push the other away.

Its not healthy at all to erase a performance in small pieces but as far i undestood this thread is the forum to do so .

post #2081 of 18459

This will be an ongoing discussion about these phones for all the reasons that have been mentioned here recently, but yes, the stock cable is the weak link, and anyone who wants to hear what these phones are capable of, in terms of openness, naturalness, detail, whatever, is going to have to upgrade.

 

Using a better cable (Stax O2 Mk1, presumably OCC - does anyone know?), in a direct comparison with the Senn 600 while mixing a jazz record this week, the latter conveyed much more energy in the presence range, so cymbals sounded louder, as they did on the powered Mackie monitors which this engineer uses. Which was more correct, that's the question that's harder to answer. My experience with headphones in general is that people with a lot of experience with music and whose opinion I trust mostly agree in general on how a particular transducer sounds in comparison to other transducers, i.e. the HRTF doesn't seem to be the most important factor. Everyone I've had listen to the Audeze agree that they definitely do not emphasize the highs, but on records that I would guess are well produced and reproduced, e.g. Patricia Barber's Nightclub (MoFi SACD), using my friend's discrete headphone amp and custom silver cables, the drum solo on "Yesterdays" sounded incredibly realistic to us. Dynamics are great but nothing is pushed out at you, it's all just there in the most coherent and spacious way imaginable short of really good multichannel (which btw the Beyer Headzone m/ch amp/processor does not provide, it glazes over the sound in a fatiguing way - maybe if the analog stage was modded...).
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by thinker View Post




.Anyway its possible that when changing the stock cable i get the last info.I wish i would have Stax Omega to compare.This is very subtle information and in practise it has no meaning because the LCD overall performance is way above what i have ever heard from any phone .

post #2082 of 18459

I have one each of the ALO (balanced and single-ended) cable. And YES the cable makes more than a subtle difference. I have found the dimensional (and a particular inner-dimension) characteristics of this phone being awakened, and exhibiting multiple layered performer interactions, thus demonstrating uncanny SPACE or sound-field generation when properly amped. 

 

I have a wonderful stable of above average Solid-State, but the most intrinsic balance with flesh on bone comes from a tube affair..called the Leben! I have the model CS300XS and can't be more adamant toward a recommendation for a particular phone (or any lesser phone).

 

"Out of my Head!" and "in to the recording venue". I ain't kidding! 


Edited by achristilaw - 6/27/10 at 1:37pm
post #2083 of 18459


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SemiAudiophile View Post

 

I've only listened to the Lambda's and never really cared for its tone and that midrange "etch". The fact that you need a dedicated amp was another turn off for me.  


This is really not the case.  You don't need a dedicated amp.  Transformer energizers work quite well, but they need an amp that can drive a fairly large peak to peak voltage swing to get the Stax headphones to sound comparable as those driven off dedicated amps that generally swing more than 700VP-P.

 

I'll pick on the Schiit amp since it's the FOTM and is being advertised in what I feel are very misleading ways based on undocumented test conditions to achieve the peak voltage and bias levels.  I'm skeptical it can deliver that peak bias level and therefore, peak power at its normal operating temperature once the MOSFETs thermally stabilize.  But for the sake of argument, let's use it's advertised 20V peak voltage swing since it should be able to maintain the peak voltage unless the transformer is really undersized and it sags under load even after the bias settles down well below the 315mA maximum.  So we have 20V peak into a stock Stax transformer box.  Stax uses a 1:25 voltage multiplier so the 20V peak of the Schiit becomes a 500V peak to peak swing on the Stax headphones.  Listenable with Lambda Normal bias cans and many of the older Stax, but nowhere close to enough drive for O2s or newer SR-404 variants.  But when you feed it with something more powerful with 35V+ peak like a F5 or a balanced amp then we start to get into nice voltage swing off the energizers.  An amp like a balanced B22 can actually push more voltage to the secondaries than the insulation is rated for (1KV insulation) so some care has to be taken as more is not always better.  The only caveat with an energizer is that Stax uses small iron and small iron has limited bandwidth.  Stax chose to sacrifice the bass in favor of keeping most of the highs, so Lambdas on an energizer sound a little bass anemic versus being on a dedicated amp.  But, with properly spec'ed custom iron and DIY bias board, a full bandwidth is possible and my iron is rated 10Hz to 40KHz with 10W input, impulse tested at 1KV for 30 seconds too so they can handle the power from a balanced B22 if i keep the levels reasonable. 

 

But as Beefy mentioned before, you can pick up a set of Lambda Nova Signatures or Normal bias SR-Lambdas for under $300 and SRD6 or SRD7 for $100 or less.  Pair it with a good higher voltage swing amp and you can have a great setup for both high-end orthos/dynamics and 'stats.  That was my point long ago in this thread.  As long as you don't expect to drive O2s from a stock energizer, then you should be pretty happy with the results. 

 

As far as the etch, that must be something prevalent in Pro bias Lambdas because it simply isn't present in the Normal bias Lambdas, or it's an artifact from poor synergy with the amp/source because my Normal SR-Lambdas were at CanJam on the eXStatA SS and nobody seemed to complain about midrange etch.  Over all most loved the synergy of the two together.  It was only topped by the synergy of the eXStatA Hybrid and the HE60s.  Funny because the HE60s are notoriously called bright and harsh too, but those traits simply don't appear on the eXStatA Hybrid.

 

The 'stats are a different sound signature than the LCD-2s though.  I wouldn't call one better than the other.  They're just different.  I loved the LCD-2s off the Liquid Fire, but I love my Lambdas and the HE60s will be added to my collection to be driven off a modded eXStatA Hybrid in the future.  My collection will be rounded out by my SR-003s, TPs and my Kenwood KH-83 with hybrid drivers.  I'll make it a half dozen with a set of custom Toshiba electrets, and the rest of the cans are at great risk of going to new homes.  I have my eyes open for a set of LNS too, and may the best Lambda win.    But after that, I'm really done.  I'll be happy with the headphones and my amp collection will be rounded out by four future Cavalli Audio amps and two tube amps I'm designing for my own enjoyment primarily to drive FR speakers.  Add in two DIY phono stages, three DIY DACs, a DIY CD transport, a DIY TT, three sets of DIY speakers, and two refurbished consoles and I'm done.  I'll start airbrushing chassis again after all my DIY stuff is done as I will have spent my time and money where I want and I'll be happy...

 

Until the LCD-3s or TP-2s come out. 

 

Oh, and I do want a Decware Mini Torii amp.  So I'll have to sell a few of my other amps to fund that one.  Then I'm done.  Seriously. 

 

Stop laughing, I mean it. 


Edited by BoilermakerFan - 6/28/10 at 12:31pm
post #2084 of 18459
Quote:
Originally Posted by achristilaw View Post



 



I never heard a great balance at low levels. The Audez'e is KING of low-level playback! One persons low-level might cause bleeding in others however......I never like loud for loudness sake, as I listen to mostly Acoustic and maintain what I feel are natural levels...

 

One difference perhaps you don't listen to the "Classics" perhaps? Your using tubes (triodes?) only for the 800 and could slog your way through! Tubes never fleshed the 800 out for me....You like the presence depression?

 

I listen to alot of Acouostic, in fact right now but more live music.  Don't know what your idea of "Classics" is......I don't listen to any classical though.  

 

I am a bit confused though because you say that with the 800s and tubes you slog yourself though and don't like tubes but then on the next post you call them fatiguing.  My set up doesn't slog though and is not fatiguing.  It is incredible fast with the Zana Duex amp, and the full size DHC copper Complements soften any fatiguing.  But that said, I would like to hear the LCD-2s.  Got to admit though I remember hearing Planar headphones at Canjam 09 and I was not really impressed.  Don't remember which ones they were but they were a new release.  These I'm sure have had improvements.  The issue for me is an amp, I asked someone earlier in the thread to check his with his Lisa lll which i also own to see how it drove them and he said he would but never did.  I know that they don't match well with my current system though so I should probably write them off for a while unless they match with the Lisa.
 

post #2085 of 18459
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoilermakerFan View Post




This is really not the case.  You don't need a dedicated amp.  Transformer energizers work quite well, but they need an amp that can drive a fairly large peak to peak voltage swing to get the Stax headphones to sound comparable as those driven off dedicated amps that generally swing more than 700VP-P. 


I meant that you needed an amp/energizer with the specific output for Stax headphones. Which is inconvenient for me, versus LCD-2, where I can use it pretty much anywhere with a headphone line out like an ipod (even though it might sound exactly the best). I do like Stax headphones, like the Lambdas for what they do well, and that to me is the way they present the music. I agree that they do make a pretty good budget rig if you already have a power amplifier or receiver that can output to an energizer. 

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