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Just listened to some Fostex T50RPs today... WOW! - Page 633

post #9481 of 10873

I'm futzing with the Rastapants 2 mod trying to reign the bass in, and make them more forward, any tips?


Edited by Taowolf51 - 11/3/12 at 2:32pm
post #9482 of 10873
Can these be used for portable use?
post #9483 of 10873

I do, but if you want it to be loud, you may need a small amp.

post #9484 of 10873

I never had a problem with them getting "Loud" from my laptop.  I might have little baby ears though biggrin.gif.  I never tried these on my phone because the synergy was pretty decent on the laptop for what it was.  At meets, people will crank the music up to as loud as they can go to the point just before crying -- I never understood this.  The t50s get plenty loud, but a good source makes them shine.

post #9485 of 10873

I was talking phone. With my laptop, I've never had a volume problem.

 

I also listen to things more quietly than most, I want to protect this hearing. :p

post #9486 of 10873

In case anyone needs to know the internal cup volume of the T50/40/20RP:

 

I poured salt into an empty cup (Right) flush with the top of the rubber shock absorbers. I poured that amount of salt into a pill bottle from the pharmacy that is a perfect cylinder, subtracted the pill bottle thickness (2 mm base and "wall"), and calculated the cup volume = 59.00 cubic centimeters. 

 

This estimated internal cup volume assumes the baffle compartments have been flush filled with Newplast or plasticine.

 

The jack in the Left cup is ~ 1.2 cubic centimeters so the volume of the left cup accounting for the jack is: 59.00 - 1.2 = 57.8 cubic centimeters. So, the jack accounts for only about 2% less volume in the Left compared to the Right side.


Edited by bluemonkeyflyer - 11/6/12 at 3:38pm
post #9487 of 10873
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluemonkeyflyer View Post

In case anyone needs to know the internal cup volume minus the driver extension into the cup volume:

 

I poured salt into an empty cup up to the top of the rubber shock absorbers. I poured that amount of salt into a pill bottle from the pharmacy that is a perfect cylinder and calculated the cup volume at 59.04 cubic centimeters. The driver "extends" into this space  ~ 3.5x3.5x0.2 cm or 2.45 cubic centimeters. This estimates the internal cup volume with the baffle/driver attached = 56.6 cubic centimeters.

 

This estimate of internal cup volume assumes the baffle compartments have been flush filled with Newplast or plasticine.

 

How does the sound improve with the cup filled with salt? A bit grainy?

post #9488 of 10873
Quote:
Originally Posted by tdockweiler View Post

 

How does the sound improve with the cup filled with salt? A bit grainy?

LOL!  

post #9489 of 10873

Here's my quick story on getting two pairs of t50rps and doing some mods.  Grabbed two pairs, modded the first according to DBV #3 on http://www.head-fi.org/t/618659/fostex-t50rp-incremental-mods-and-measurements.  Listened to the unmodded vs the modded for a while. 

 

Stock:

 

Sounds somewhat decent.  It has that nice Ortho signature, but the bass is very sloppy and the whole thing sounds a bit underwater.  Listening to an electronic track with buzzy bass really shows the problem.  The jagged bass noise (I assume caused by a sawtooth style wave) gets all mushed together and looses all its texture.

 

Modded DBV #3 (Followed directions here, above point 56: http://www.head-fi.org/t/618659/fostex-t50rp-incremental-mods-and-measurements):

 

I made these following the directions above.  I poked 9 holes in the stiff felt, used the treble reflector, modelling clay on the baffles, silverstone/felt in cups/silverstone ladder rungs, fiberglass/rolled cotton, shure pads.

 

These were A/B'd with the stock t50rp's blind and level matched.  The DBV #3 was clearly better.  The efficiency was much worse on the DBV #3s, as expected.  On the stock T50RPs, it was easy to drive them pretty loud using a laptop, but I found them too soft without an amp after modding (especially when trying to EQ, songs with high dynamic range, etc).  The DBV #3s were not without problems to my ears.  I have very young ears and can still hear the anti-teenage-loitering devices around the city piercingly loud.  "Bright" headphones do not meld well with my ears.  I found the DBV #3s (made exactly as described with treble reflector/rolled cotton/fiberglass) to be too harsh up top, not enough bass.  I think an older person might think they are perfect though.  There is a slight chance I didn't measure the weight of the damping material properly.  Will come back to this...

 

Modded DBV #3 version 2 (Followed directions here, above point 56: http://www.head-fi.org/t/618659/fostex-t50rp-incremental-mods-and-measurements):

(Made the same as above, except I am 100% sure the damping material is weighed properly, and there is no treble reflector.)

 

I took the second pair, and also did the DBV #3 modification on them, this time without treble reflector, and definitely the right amount of damping material.  They sound great!  I once again got a friend to do a blind A/B test.  I could clearly pick out the pair without the treble reflector, and it was much better.  Bass was fuller and tighter and the symbols/high end wasn't so splashy and harsh.

 

Next step is to take my DBV #3 version 1, and turn it into the version 2 as well.

 

----

 

I tried these through my:

 

Laptop - A bit quiet, sound quality is decent (no hiss like on IEMs).  Wasn't very satisfying being able to turn it up all the way on some quiet parts of songs.

Phone - Same as the laptop, but even quieter.

Cheapo Amps - FiiO E3/Cmoy amp - Even the E7 made the phone and laptop tolerable volumes.  That would be my barebones setup if I only had $110.00 to spend on headphones + amp.

ODAC -> Fiio E9 - Tons of power.  Would need to do more blind testing to see if I actually tell a difference between these.

ODAC -> O2 - Just soldered this together on Saturday.  Once again sounds great.  Gain of 2.5x is loud enough for all but the quietest of recordings.  More blind testing needed to see if I can tell the difference between the FiiO E9 and O2 with these phones.

 

I compared these to my JH16s and LCD-3s.  They definitely have cleaner sound than the JH16s, bass is a lot less muddy.  More airy than the JH16s.  JH16s have more bass (but only when put though a low output impedance amp like the O2!).

 

LCD-3s: The LCD-3s are for sure better, but it's not huge.  I would say they are 80% of the LCD-3s.  They are less airy, more closed in, not as clear and creamy, but they have the same general sound signature.  I would say the LCD-3s are a bit darker?  The T50RPs are much lighter and more comfortable.  Surprisingly, the LCD-3s need much less power, and are more efficient.  Wasn't expecting that.

 

Sennheiser 595s: Totally different headphone.  595 is the soundstage king (IMO), but lacks so much of the texture/low end of the orthos.  Hard to compare them.  They both have their place.

 

Hope this helps someone!
 

post #9490 of 10873
Quote:
Originally Posted by cegli View Post

Here's my quick story on getting two pairs of t50rps and doing some mods.  Grabbed two pairs, modded the first according to DBV #3 on http://www.head-fi.org/t/618659/fostex-t50rp-incremental-mods-and-measurements.  Listened to the unmodded vs the modded for a while. 

Stock:




Sounds somewhat decent.  It has that nice Ortho signature, but the bass is very sloppy and the whole thing sounds a bit underwater.  Listening to an electronic track with buzzy bass really shows the problem.  The jagged bass noise (I assume caused by a sawtooth style wave) gets all mushed together and looses all its texture.

Modded DBV #3 (Followed directions here, above point 56: http://www.head-fi.org/t/618659/fostex-t50rp-incremental-mods-and-measurements):




I made these following the directions above.  I poked 9 holes in the stiff felt, used the treble reflector, modelling clay on the baffles, silverstone/felt in cups/silverstone ladder rungs, fiberglass/rolled cotton, shure pads.

These were A/B'd with the stock t50rp's blind and level matched.  The DBV #3 was clearly better.  The efficiency was much worse on the DBV #3s, as expected.  On the stock T50RPs, it was easy to drive them pretty loud using a laptop, but I found them too soft without an amp after modding (especially when trying to EQ, songs with high dynamic range, etc).  The DBV #3s were not without problems to my ears.  I have very young ears and can still hear the anti-teenage-loitering devices around the city piercingly loud.  "Bright" headphones do not meld well with my ears.  I found the DBV #3s (made exactly as described with treble reflector/rolled cotton/fiberglass) to be too harsh up top, not enough bass.  I think an older person might think they are perfect though.  There is a slight chance I didn't measure the weight of the damping material properly.  Will come back to this...

Modded DBV #3 version 2 (Followed directions here, above point 56: http://www.head-fi.org/t/618659/fostex-t50rp-incremental-mods-and-measurements):



(Made the same as above, except I am 100% sure the damping material is weighed properly, and there is no treble reflector.)

I took the second pair, and also did the DBV #3 modification on them, this time without treble reflector, and definitely the right amount of damping material.  They sound great!  I once again got a friend to do a blind A/B test.  I could clearly pick out the pair without the treble reflector, and it was much better.  Bass was fuller and tighter and the symbols/high end wasn't so splashy and harsh.

Next step is to take my DBV #3 version 1, and turn it into the version 2 as well.

----

I tried these through my:

Laptop - A bit quiet, sound quality is decent (no hiss like on IEMs).  Wasn't very satisfying being able to turn it up all the way on some quiet parts of songs.
Phone - Same as the laptop, but even quieter.
Cheapo Amps - FiiO E3/Cmoy amp - Even the E7 made the phone and laptop tolerable volumes.  That would be my barebones setup if I only had $110.00 to spend on headphones + amp.
ODAC -> Fiio E9 - Tons of power.  Would need to do more blind testing to see if I actually tell a difference between these.
ODAC -> O2 - Just soldered this together on Saturday.  Once again sounds great.  Gain of 2.5x is loud enough for all but the quietest of recordings.  More blind testing needed to see if I can tell the difference between the FiiO E9 and O2 with these phones.

I compared these to my JH16s and LCD-3s.  They definitely have cleaner sound than the JH16s, bass is a lot less muddy.  More airy than the JH16s.  JH16s have more bass (but only when put though a low output impedance amp like the O2!).

LCD-3s: The LCD-3s are for sure better, but it's not huge.  I would say they are 80% of the LCD-3s.  They are less airy, more closed in, not as clear and creamy, but they have the same general sound signature.  I would say the LCD-3s are a bit darker?  The T50RPs are much lighter and more comfortable.  Surprisingly, the LCD-3s need much less power, and are more efficient.  Wasn't expecting that.

Sennheiser 595s: Totally different headphone.  595 is the soundstage king (IMO), but lacks so much of the texture/low end of the orthos.  Hard to compare them.  They both have their place.

Hope this helps someone!

 

Very nice work! Thanks for the effort and for sharing your methods, results, and impressions. What you've done is what I advocate: "Take anyone's mod and make it your own" by tuning to suit your ears, preferences, and audio chain.

BTW, my ears probably have a "few" more miles on them than yours!

Best wishes.
post #9491 of 10873

Would love to hear your follow-up on the FiiO E9 vs O2 amps as I currently have an E7/E9 combo and have been thinking of upgrading to the ODAC/O2 combo. Thanks for sharing!!

post #9492 of 10873

Cegli, thanks for the write up and motivation to remove the treble reflector.  After finishing my DVB #3 build the improvements over stock were obvious but still not to my total satisfaction so I removed the fiberglass, sounded better to my ears.  Although better, I noticed a very slight raggedness sort of like a distortion which was annoying since it was always there.  After reading your post I decided to remove the treble reflector pretty much mirroring your results and the raggedness is gone with a smoother more liquid sound.  

 

The trouble with modding these phones is you never know when to leave well enough alone but I think I'll put my screwdriver away for a while and just enjoy some music.

 

Phill

post #9493 of 10873

Can the drivers be degraded after too many time tweaking? Now my T50rp sound really bad.

post #9494 of 10873

No.

Quote:
Originally Posted by proid View Post

Can the drivers be degraded after too many time tweaking? Now my T50rp sound really bad.

post #9495 of 10873
Quote:
Originally Posted by proid View Post

Can the drivers be degraded after too many time tweaking? Now my T50rp sound really bad.

I have seen some problems that were insidious and took a while to solve:

Too many applications of tape directly on the white driver paper can leave adhesive residue that can alter the sound with too little bass and too much treble. Some tape adhesives may interact with and weaken the factory adhesive causing separation from the driver grid for boomy bass.

Cup and Connector B threads gradually strip and change the sound by degrading the cup to baffle seal and reducing clamping pressure causing loss of bass.

I have seen two sets with incomplete seal of the white driver dampener to the driver. One of these developed several weeks into the modding process with no tape applied directly to the white dampener. I think these two were factory flaws.

If the stock black cup vent felt loses its adhesion, the bass may become boomy.

If pads slip or flaps weaken, the seal is compromised which can change the sound quality and loss of bass.
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