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Just listened to some Fostex T50RPs today... WOW! - Page 240

post #3586 of 10599

Quote:

Originally Posted by LFF View Post

 

I said I wouldn't post here but....

 

Just wanted to say that this is false and I have mentioned this before. We perceive sound distance and direction (out of the head sound cues) only through cues present in the sound pressures at the two eardrums. Also, influence of the shadowing of the torso, head, and pinnae on the frequency spectrum perceived at the eardrums also influences these cues. Research has shown that direction in the horizontal plane is almost entirely determined through pressure differences between the two ears and that direction in the vertical plane is determined through comparing the frequency spectrum of the sound source to previous experience with such sources at known directions. Both of these key factors for localization are contained within a recording unless the recording is seriously flawed. Sealed headphones work just as well as open headphones to perceive these cues and under certain conditions one will be better than the other. If the sound doesn't make it out of the cup and you perceive no "out of the head" cues, it's not the headphones...it's either the recording or you.

 

 



Aww, well, we knew you'd be back ;)

Yah, that's pretty much the case. Closed cans will really only effect the back pressure on the driver and the amount of reflection. The key is to get your headphones to reproduce the recording exactly how it was mastered (hence all the damping matting and sealing inside the cups!).

post #3587 of 10599

Originally Posted by Psilocybe View Post

 

Sound escaping from the cups completely is equivalent to perfect damping in the cups. Now if you mean sound getting into the cups, giving you sound cues from outside, that obviously comes with the tradeoff of, well, being able to hear those sounds, i.e. poor isolation.

 

Well, I make my own 5.1>stereo downmixes through a custom mixing matrix based on David Griesinger's Logic7 + some VST plugins such as Ozone4(all that through ffdshow) and movies sound just as 3D and "out of the head" as on the cd3k, once the side vents are open. If I cover them, then the sound cues cannot appear "distant" anymore to my brain: a car spanning from left to right feels like it's 10 cm away from my head top, and that's it. Once they're open, my brain is unable to guess the distance...it's just very very far.

 

My custom mixing matrix is using inverted phase on the rear channels and I've finetuned all the coeffs to match my HRTF and the T50RP native headstage...it took me a while, but it was well worth the trouble!


Originally Posted by Psilocybe View Post


Aye, but the most important factor in determining the reflection of a wave from a surface is going to be the relative difference in impedance between the two. Air to plasticine will create a large reflection as it's going from low to high density. Air to paxmate dampens and scatters reflections a great deal because of the irregular surface and low density damping material.


Indeed, the reflections boucing off blutack sound really nasty, even bouncing back over Paxmate...newplast sounds far better! But you cannot beat acoustic foam for reflections, which are our biggest enemy in headphones. But IME paxmate over the baffle would get the driver to suffocate, as not enough air will be allowed to breathe in and out the driver and we do need some reflections IMHO.

 

The cd3k is using huge cups coz in my understanding the driver was engineered to selectively let SS sound cues bounce off them. On the cd3k, you don't have just one SS...basically every actor of the SS has one of its own, It's a baby-R10 and it's already pretty eye popping...too bad it really lacks in the deep bass department and as much as its SS is amazing, it basically sounds like a stadium reverb DSP. You are listening to the cups.


Originally Posted by Psilocybe View Post


That's why I've always wondered why people think it's given that closed headphones will always have a smaller soundstage. I understand you're certainly more likely to get a wider feel with open cans, but it should be certainly possible to get that same feeling with closed cans I would think.


Coz they simply always will, physics at work. If the sound doesn't leak off the cups you will need a DSP if you wanna fool the brain into believing that the sound comes from very far. A true hardcore closed phone like the DT770/Pro has a ridiculously narrow 2D SS, and angling the drivers won't help either...this thing is hopeless. I believe this subject has already been discussed here on head-fi, but Huddler's search engine won't allow us to find it anyway.


Edited by leeperry - 10/8/11 at 7:42pm
post #3588 of 10599

what acoustic material is out there in 4mm> acoustipack, silverstone, lian-li.  This lian-li is rubbish though - its not even open cell.

post #3589 of 10599

Originally Posted by Psilocybe View Post
The key is to get your headphones to reproduce the recording exactly how it was mastered (hence all the damping matting and sealing inside the cups!).


Well, this I really don't buy....good luck projecting a deep and wide 3D SS w/o any reflection. And last time I checked, mixing/mastering were not performed within anechoic rooms. The same way some ppl will show you 0.00000000001% THD measurements and explain you that you are hearing the record "as is", whatever mixing/mastering were colored by zillion parameters such as:

-the speakers being used

-the room reflections

-reflections over the mixing board knobs

-the shape of the pinna of the engineer(s)

-the level of noise in the AC current being fed to the amp that's feeding the speakers

-etc etc, I could go on and on

 

Everything colors the sound, you just gotta find something that makes you happy and that won't bore you once the new toy syndrom will have faded away...there's no "uncolored" sound and there's no way to hear the record "the way it was meant to", this is just a fairy tale.

 

post #3590 of 10599

Hmm, I shied away from these headphones earlier this year because of the so-so results from modding, but I think I may be on board now. It's really exciting to see the progress in here, plus I love me something I can tinker with biggrin.gif

post #3591 of 10599
Quote:
Originally Posted by leeperry View Post

Well, this I really don't buy....good luck projecting a deep and wide 3D SS w/o any reflection.


The reflections are IN the recording. If the closed headphone is accurate, the 3D soundstage will be reproduced amazingly well.

 

post #3592 of 10599
Quote:
Originally Posted by LFF View Post

The reflections are IN the recording. If the closed headphone is accurate, the 3D soundstage will be reproduced amazingly well.

 

^^

post #3593 of 10599

Eh.  Shouldn't dog pile so EDIT.

 

Anyhow, just loving these things.  I hope someone will do the full mod soon.  I really want to hear the feedback, feedback on partial mods is nice but not the full monty.  Anyone local, I have extra Fatmat...


Edited by mrspeakers - 10/8/11 at 10:09pm
post #3594 of 10599

6a00e55503a4a388340147e077c296970b-800wi

post #3595 of 10599

Bruce Cockburn's "Rainfall" is just something to behold on these.  Huge sense of space, excellent acoustic guitar rendition.  Percussion in the left channel I never heard before, and the bass just has the most awesome growl and punch, and the scales up into upper base, are smooth and flat.  In his "Bright Sky," I had no idea that the backing vocals are actually a chorus, I just thought it was regular multi tracking.  And there's some TWISTED composition in that chorus, it's almost like Ligetti in places.  

 

Whoa. 

post #3596 of 10599

I don't know much about HP design to know whether this is possible, but I'm wondering...has anyone tried to make these open?  Effect?

post #3597 of 10599
Quote:
Originally Posted by sphinxvc View Post

I don't know much about HP design to know whether this is possible, but I'm wondering...has anyone tried to make these open?  Effect?


A few have tried and all have failed at making a good sounding design.

 

post #3598 of 10599

Is it really that important to do FatMat/Dynamat to the T50RP's in the Rastapants2 configuration?  Its the only thing holding be back from doing the mod.  I don't have any of that stuff right now and it will take at least 4-5 days to get it to me. 

post #3599 of 10599
Quote:
Originally Posted by wdahm519 View Post

Is it really that important to do FatMat/Dynamat to the T50RP's in the Rastapants2 configuration?  Its the only thing holding be back from doing the mod.  I don't have any of that stuff right now and it will take at least 4-5 days to get it to me. 


Well, put your phones on your head and gently tap or even run your fingers along the cup.  The amount of plastic resonance created with very little energy is quite high, and in my opinion will probably add some coloration in the mid bass and mids.  The Dynamat lowers the resonant frequency of the plastic by adding mass, a good thing, and absorbs energy.  You can also use modeling clay, but I'm not sure on a relatively smooth surface how well it will hold over time.

 

If you have tons of paxmate you could easily just pull the padding out and then upgrade to add the FatMat later, adding a new piece of foam on top, then write about any change you hear, which will probably be most clear on very complex material or low-level ambience...


Edited by mrspeakers - 10/8/11 at 11:33pm
post #3600 of 10599

The RastaPants 2 look incredible.  Bass quantity wise, how do they compare with headphones such as the Denon D5000?  I assume quality is superior, but they'd still need similar quantity for me to enjoy them.  If they do...../drooooool

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