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Just listened to some Fostex T50RPs today... WOW! - Page 15

post #211 of 10623

Well, I would say that it's hard to push the cd3k to its limits...I'm not even sure that LT1363 was achieving that. And yes, after listening to it for a while, all the other opamps felt slow and bloated in comparison.

 

Its very high slew rate allows to pick up any tiny minute detail other opamps completely overlook. But the cd3k would be fatiguing due to all that resolution, when the t50rp always sounds laid back, but still very detailed...but in its own way. Those 2 phones are using 2 different technologies, to sum up I'd say that the cd3k is very fast and fatiguing and the t50rp laid back and natural sounding. The cd3k doesn't sound natural by any stretch of the imagination.

 

Someone said that the cd3k SS felt like a cocoon w/ its stunning 3D SS, I would say that my modded t50rp is the same...but not cavernous whatsoever(the biggest drawback of the cd3k to my ears) and even wider/deeper. This phone sounds amazingly natural, and those mids ahhhhh!

 

t50rp_f.gif t50rp

mdr-cd3000_f.gif cd3k

mdr-sa5000_f.gif sa5k

 

PS: listening to some techstep DNB as I'm typing this, this phone sounds too natural to make fast electronic music sound good IMO. Its goal is to sound true to life, but there's nothing natural sounding about a grossly distorted whiney bass line.


Edited by leeperry - 10/6/10 at 1:46pm
post #212 of 10623


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Strummer View Post

Also it is hard to justify that the BCL is faster than the Beta, the slew rate of the Beta is as overkill as I've seen, and more than one person has recommended it to me as great in that aspect. I take headfonia with a grain of salt, the reviews are very good but more often than not it doesn't seem to match with what I perceive.

 

 

I never actually said I believed this guy...on the matrix m-stage thread, I stated that after reading that BCL impression, I felt that this reviewer knew not of what he speaks.  I fail to see how the B22 could have lesser clarity or transients to a lesser amp - once again, another reviewer, confuses speed with tonal balance.
 

post #213 of 10623

One thing's for sure, listening to Otis Redding w/ this phone is like being dead and sent to heaven. I can hear Otis as if I were in the studio cabin in the late 60's, the bass is very loud and thick sounding, the drums as natural sounding as can get, the SS more than 200 degrees. Everything's made of compromises in this world, and this phone is "it" to me. One less thing to worry about biggrin.gif

post #214 of 10623
Quote:
Originally Posted by leeperry View Post

One thing's for sure, listening to Otis Redding w/ this phone is like being dead and sent to heaven. I can hear Otis as if I were in the studio cabin in the late 60's, the bass is very loud and thick sounding, the drums as natural sounding as can get, the SS more than 200 degrees. Everything's made of compromises in this world, and this phone is "it" to me. One less thing to worry about biggrin.gif


Just place a preorder for the LCD2 - you know you want to.  I heard a pair of modded vintage Yamaha orthos and they were damned good.  Eventually there is a limit to the T50s plastic cups and the drivers cannot be allowed to show its ultimate strength.  Why not try a pair of smeggy's wooden cups - in the end of the day, I think you and I are in the same camp with headphone ss and imaging  That is only well implemented crossfeed will truly solve this particular limitation.

 

The Audeze not only has better drivers, but a superior open back cup - the thing weighs twice as heavy as any other can.  I have auditioned most hi-end cans and have yet to hear a can that posses the katana blade like razor transients of the LCD2 - and that is only the least recognised positive attribute of the LCD2.

post #215 of 10623

I fully understand what you're saying..but w/ carefully dampened cups, some open cell foam to beef up the low end bass, bluetack in the inner baffles, thicker felt and the angled sa5k earpads, this phone reaches a whole new dimension. Removing the side vents felt is also pretty astounding, as it provides a +200 degrees SS...it's quite amazing how well it mixes w/ the angled sa5k earpads. The latter also provide a tighter bass and add a delightful SONY "character" to the sound.

 

I've tried to completely dampen the cups, but that didn't work at all...I'm really not looking for a bloated closed cups design. After many experiments, I've come to the conclusion that the cups resonances act as walls in a virtual room. You have to drive them the way you want(essentially breaking them, like this) but you do need them IME.

 

I'm sure the LCD-2 must kill! but I like hard soldered single sided cables, and I trust the +30yo R&D of a big pro-audio Japanese company more than a new US company's that's only been in the business for a few years. And $1K for a pair of headphones is ridiculous, especially when the T50RP sells for $75.


Edited by leeperry - 10/7/10 at 1:37pm
post #216 of 10623


 

Originally Posted by SP Wild View Post

well implemented crossfeed

 

Redline Monitor + open vents + angled earpads make up for an amazing combo...this is not a xfeed plugin, it's an anechoic room simulator. It doesn't create a center channel, it project a front channel and doesn't mix the L/R side channels whatsoever.

 

On hardpan 60/70's music, I don't only have XZ music, but also very much Y...like one guitar on the top right, the bass behind my head, the horns on the bottom left and the singer right in the middle before me. And it's not hollow whatsoever, unlike that worthless DH(or Isone Pro for that matter).

 

xyz-coordinates.png


Edited by leeperry - 10/6/10 at 9:47pm
post #217 of 10623

The modified Yammies I heard still had its stock cups and they'd blow away a lot of so called hi-end cans,  If anyone can, leepery can!

post #218 of 10623
Quote:
Originally Posted by leeperry View Post

 

I'm sure the LCD-2 must kill! but I like hard soldered single sided cables, and I trust the +30yo R&D of a big pro-audio Japanese company more than a new US company's that's only been in the business for a few years. And $1K for a pair of headphones is ridiculous, especially when the T50RP sells for $75.



Here is where we differ the most (probably), I don't think $1k for a couple of state of the art cans is much to ask (but then again I'm a crazy guy that might end up saving for an HE90 in the distant future ).

 

But why  do you prefer single sided soldered cables???  thats exactly opposite of what I prefer!

post #219 of 10623

I like soldered because that's the best possible connection...the actual electric contact on removable plugs is very small. I read that a generic power cable hardly reaches 5% of actual surface contact. Furutech sell a fluid to fill the gaps...and each time I've played around w/ headphones and (fast) opamps, I've always noticed a SQ improvement when soldered(my T50RP is hard soldered too, the connection in the left cup was cutting in almost everyday...and same goes for several other ppl). The Cardas Eutectic solder makes beautiful joints and its melting point is so low(185C) that it's child's play to work w/.

 

And why single sided? because I'm left handed and can't be hassled to have a cable hanging on my chest all the time. Denon say in their commercial bs that their D2/5/7k serie uses 2 cables of the exact same length "to maintain optimum sound quality"...electrons move almost as fast as light, I guess they didn't get the memo.

 

"High End" is all relative after you hear a properly modded ortho, that's all I can say. The ortho lovers might not be as nuts as they appear [:icon12]


Edited by leeperry - 10/6/10 at 10:51pm
post #220 of 10623

Same here, I'm stopping with the T50RP just because I can't justify the LCD2's price - I won't say that the price is ridiculous though.

I am waiting for developments in the IEMs arena. I'd rather spend that amount of money on IEMs biggrin.gif

post #221 of 10623


SP Wild, are you saying the very poor SS and imaging in the T50RP - there we agree fully - is mainly created by those cup resonances, and that with some damping of the cups and baffle, the soundstage and imaging would actually improve ? There is no trade off if doing those mods ? I don't want more bass than they already have stock.

 

It is true that the drivers are very fast, but my take on this is because they move less air than a regular dynamic driver. It is very obvious because the notes are missing depth and envelop, and the T50RP can not represent a realistic 3D image of the soundwave hitting your ears. However, the only dynamic drivers I know of and have heard and that are trully fast are the DT48 and HD800.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SP Wild View Post

they are indeed turbo drivers, though its hard to tell with all the cup coloration occurring (strangling the sound in in every possible way - especially the top end and imaging and staging).

 

I think almost everybody in audio period is confusing the definition of driver speed.  Driver speed has very little to do with staging, imaging and treble response.

post #222 of 10623


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by shamu144 View Post


SP Wild, are you saying the very poor SS and imaging in the T50RP - there we agree fully - is mainly created by those cup resonances, and that with some damping of the cups and baffle, the soundstage and imaging would actually improve ? There is no trade off if doing those mods ? I don't want more bass than they already have stock.

 

It is true that the drivers are very fast, but my take on this is because they move less air than a regular dynamic driver. It is very obvious because the notes are missing depth and envelop, and the T50RP can not represent a realistic 3D image of the soundwave hitting your ears. However, the only dynamic drivers I know of and have heard and that are trully fast are the DT48 and HD800.

 


 


I have not modded the T50RP just yet so cannot really answer your question - Leeperry probably has better experience in this regard.  I have a sneakin suspicion that the biggest tradeoff exists with the stock T50 - the tradeoff in sonic quality to maintain its dirt cheap pricing and skimping on better materials for the cup construction.  At this stage I suspect there is no reason to have any tradeoffs if you took it upon yourself to free the T50 from its poor cup resonance properties.  Investigate the merits of Smeggys thunderpants - these are the T50 drivers in a customised wooden cup.

 

They are fast drivers perhaps because they are small and move less air - I don't kno.  But they are fast period.  I firmly believe that the stock cups resonate in a manner that drowns out details and dynamics and smothers the sound.  The drivers need not be large because the T50 is not a circumaural design, they sit on the ear not around them (definitely not on my ears), which means there is less air that needs moving within the cup - the cups are also not an open back desgn, so less air movement is required yet again.  If it couldn't move enough air - all else equal, the result would be a poor bass response.  Any speaker driver is an airpump, no more no less and the physics involved is no different.

post #223 of 10623


I did quickly some reading on the thunderpants, but all I can find relates mainly to the bass response. Maybe Leepeery can sneak in and give some feedback indeed.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SP Wild View Post

Investigate the merits of Smeggys thunderpants - these are the T50 drivers in a customised wooden cup. 

 

So you are actually saying that those cup resonances do not affect the soundstage and imaging.... They already have above average detail retrieval stock and acceptable dynamic for me. Not sure I want to improve those areas...

 

Quote:

 Originally Posted by SP Wild View Post
 
I firmly believe that the stock cups resonate in a manner that drowns out details and dynamics and smothers the sound.
post #224 of 10623

Shamu posted:

 

"So you are actually saying that those cup resonances do not affect the soundstage and imaging.... They already have above average detail retrieval stock and acceptable dynamic for me. Not sure I want to improve those areas..."

 

In my opinion, cup resonances affect dynamics and instrument separation.  Improving cup resonances will improve dynamcis and separation.  This means that an individual instrument is more able to dynamically leap out from other background instruments more effectively hence separating the instruments more effectively.  With the instrument separated from surrounding "noise" more effectively one is more able to locate the instrument more precisely.  This is what "imaging" to me refers to.

 

Soundstage is relating to the width of the sound and is also somewhat related to imaging.  Soundstage has a lot to do with the drivers distance to the ears, another parameter of soundstage to me, is the ability of open backed cans to "crossfeed" sounds across the left and right cups - closed and semi-closed cans have a inherent disadvantage over open cup desgns - with open cup designs varying in the effectiveness of its inherent and naturally occuring crossfeed.  This is why the K1000 has the best soustage and imaging of any headphone ever.

 

I don't know what your other cans are, but the T50RP is very average in dynamics and severely smothered details.  I think you would be missing a great opportunity to create a can that costs 80 bucks that will perform better than 600 dollar headphones and very close to 1K cans with simple to carry out mods in both this thread and the giant orthdynamic thread.  I urge you to try this and I assure you, you will be amazed.

post #225 of 10623
Quote:

Originally Posted by leeperry View Post

 

And why single sided? because I'm left handed and can't be hassled to have a cable hanging on my chest all the time. Denon say in their commercial bs that their D2/5/7k serie uses 2 cables of the exact same length "to maintain optimum sound quality"...electrons move almost as fast as light, I guess they didn't get the memo.


Just a small precision : if I recall well, I made an exercise in physics about the speed of the charges in a current, and it turned out that they move really slowly (4m/hour if my memory doesn't fail...)

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