Just listened to some Fostex T50RPs today... WOW! - Page 136

I've been all over and around the DIY cable threads.  I've read multiple contradictory suggestions for making unbalanced cables with a Y split, from shielded vs no shield, to mini star quad stock vs stripped and twisted pairs, to 24 to 28 AWG  Silver plated copper hookup wire like navships sells (7 strands vs 19 strands), to super duper solid vs stranded 99.99 silver.  Then, there's cryo'd or not, copper vs silver plated copper, various braiding geometries with 4 or 8 wires and their inherent RFI/EMI rejection properties vs high capacitance.  And common ground vs separate grounding (somehow) with unbalanced TRS and XLR plugs, and on and on...

I just need a scientifically valid/common sense method to make some DIY cables for a reasonable price with good sound.  One would be hard wired to the T50RP.  The other would be a mini 3-pin or 4-pin bridged xlr removable cable with male panel receptacles mounted in the wood cups and mini xlr female plugs at each end of the cable.

Anyone have a good "recipe" of components and methods?

Quote:

Originally Posted by joelpearce 

It's probably worth getting some decent microphone cable, though, which isn't that expensive.  It's nice to work with, easy to solder, and sounds good.  A lot of people use star quad, which you can strip down and carry the individual wires up to the earcups, but I personally use the thinner microphone cable, which I find a nice compromise and significantly lighter to work with.  There are some good threads on cable making in the DIY board.  I would offer to make you one, but mine always end up way more functional than fashionable.

Quote:

Originally Posted by joelpearce 

I would also say it's worth a bit of extra coin to get a temp-controlled soldering iron, especially when you're working around the T50 PCB.  We don't need any more stories about ruined leads.

On one of my forays into the T50 I pulled loose one of the wires and had tp solder it back on. It was a real pain in the arse. My solder skills arent all that hot to begin with and trying to reattach that wire presented more challenges than I expected. My iron is just a 15W from Radio Shack, I'm not totally sure what the solder is comprised of, whatever the Radio Shack stuff is though. It seemed to me though the real difficulty was trying to tin the wire. My initial attempts were both comical and frustrating. I was trying to resolder it without tinning it at first and that wasnt working at all. Then I thought well tin the wire and that was just as comical and frustrating. I'm really surprised I didnt screw something up. If it happens again I may just have to set the T50's aside and get a new cable with wires that can be tinned and then attached

Quote:

Originally Posted by HDMan 

How about this microphone cable?

 

http://www.swamp.net.au/premium-mono-xlr-male-mic-cable-5m.html

 

Do i just cut the XLR connection off and split the wires?

 

What you want is TRS cables.  I think these cables would be better:

http://www.swamp.net.au/swamp-audio-link-cable-1-4-m-trs-1-4-m-trs-2m.html

http://www.swamp.net.au/trs-cable-balanced.html

I've been using this stuff:

http://economik.com/canare/l-2b2at-200m/

Obviously, buying 200 meters of it isn't ideal (though I'm not going to run out anytime soon), but I've found it easy to work with.  I usually put one run of it to each ear, then solder the ground wires together in the y split of the cable.  I have no idea whether that's the best way to do it, but I haven't had any troubles with it that way.  I'm not a big fan of the bare mini-star-quad cables.

Of course, you could just get something like this too:

http://www.economik.com/mogami/w2549-2ch-22awg-low-capacitance-long-run-mic-cable-price-per-foot/

Most places, you can get 22awg 2-channel with ground microphone cable for about a buck a foot.  I wouldn't start with preterminated cables, get some bulk stuff instead.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluemonkeyflyer 

I've been all over and around the DIY cable threads.  I've read multiple contradictory suggestions for making unbalanced cables with a Y split, from shielded vs no shield, to mini star quad stock vs stripped and twisted pairs, to 24 to 28 AWG  Silver plated copper hookup wire like navships sells (7 strands vs 19 strands), to super duper solid vs stranded 99.99 silver.  Then, there's cryo'd or not, copper vs silver plated copper, various braiding geometries with 4 or 8 wires and their inherent RFI/EMI rejection properties vs high capacitance.  And common ground vs separate grounding (somehow) with unbalanced TRS and XLR plugs, and on and on...

 

I just need a scientifically valid/common sense method to make some DIY cables for a reasonable price with good sound.  One would be hard wired to the T50RP.  The other would be a mini 3-pin or 4-pin bridged xlr removable cable with male panel receptacles mounted in the wood cups and mini xlr female plugs at each end of the cable.

 

Anyone have a good "recipe" of components and methods?

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrspeakers 


Hahahahaha! Scientific validation! Hahaha aha.

Dude, we are talking cables. Snake oil central.

Many years of experience in picking and measuring cables for high end speakers...

Super fancy windings, exotic crystals, etc are total b.s. Windings only make a difference because they change the RLC parameters of the wires (and that may change sound).

So for headphones, I can only suggest this; find a good cable company like Belden and get something flexible and with a non-microphonic casing. 24 will probably be pretty heavy so I might consider 26. twisting the cables will increase capacitance and resistance but decrease inductance. This will change the signal in many systems, sometimes for the better by increasing frequency response at the top, but oth er amps may not like it.

Good connectors are a different story, as the quality of the fit ensures a good, enduring contact (pricier, after a modest point, is again usually just a waste). Don't go cheap, but don't go Swiss, if you know what I mean...

I'm sure I will be flamed by some for my cable views, but....

Close enough.

T50rp uses IEM cable with extra-thick jacket, LOL!

Exactly.  I have no experience/opinions about exotic wire and esoteric winding methods.  I am looking for basically sound EE hookup methods with basic, moderately priced components for a simple re-cable.  It seems there are various braiding and twisting approaches and I don't know which to use for my simple objectives.  

I will likely get some navships 28 or 26 AWG teflon SPC stranded wire and use 4 wires for R, L and 2 for ground.  Is it correct from an EE point of view to use a common ground to the sleeve of a TRS plug and the other ends of the ground wires at the Y split to the R and L ground pins of mini xlr's?  I think from what JoelPearce and Mad Max posted that the answer is "yes".
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrspeakers 




Hahahahaha! Scientific validation! Hahaha aha.

Dude, we are talking cables. Snake oil central.

Many years of experience in picking and measuring cables for high end speakers...

Super fancy windings, exotic crystals, etc are total b.s. Windings only make a difference because they change the RLC parameters of the wires (and that may change sound).

So for headphones, I can only suggest this; find a good cable company like Belden and get something flexible and with a non-microphonic casing. 24 will probably be pretty heavy so I might consider 26. twisting the cables will increase capacitance and resistance but decrease inductance. This will change the signal in many systems, sometimes for the better by increasing frequency response at the top, but oth er amps may not like it.

Good connectors are a different story, as the quality of the fit ensures a good, enduring contact (pricier, after a modest point, is again usually just a waste). Don't go cheap, but don't go Swiss, if you know what I mean...

I'm sure I will be flamed by some for my cable views, but....

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluemonkeyflyer 

Exactly.  I have no experience/opinions about exotic wire and esoteric winding methods.  I am looking for basically sound EE hookup methods with basic, moderately priced components for a simple re-cable.  It seems there are various braiding and twisting approaches and I don't know which to use for my simple objectives.  

 

I will likely get some navships 28 or 26 AWG teflon SPC stranded wire and use 4 wires for R, L and 2 for ground.  Is it correct from an EE point of view to use a common ground to the sleeve of a TRS plug and the other ends of the ground wires at the Y split to the R and L ground pins of mini xlr's?  I think from what JoelPearce and Mad Max posted that the answer is "yes".
 

That would work just fine.  If you do it that way, you could get some nylon sleeving and some shrink tubing if you wanted to get really fancy, or just twist it together and shrink tube it at the Y split if you don't care if the braiding is visible.
 

I am looking to recable mine at this point, and is looking at 5 feet of the black dragon with switchcraft plugs

http://www.moon-audio.com/diy-audio-parts/audio-wire/moon-audio-black-dragon-bulk-headphone-cable.html

Is it worth it?  I think it's a little nuts to spend $50 recabling a $75 headphone, but if it makes a big enough difference, then I am going for it.

Also, how can I split this into a two entry?

I agree.  It is a little nuts.

Also, I wouldn't go that route unless you are fully aware of how bulky and heavy 4 21AWG wires wrapped in shielding and plastic.

agreed ... i have a 3 x 21awg cryo'd occ & it is absolutely annoying ... just too lazy to change it out to something like 4 x 28awg.

i'm also not a fan of spc nor multi-stranded stuff, preferring solid-core ... but ymmv.

i think cryo-ing helps, but i also believe that i would fail any test to distinguish it.

i think there are sound technical reasons why occ is a better conductor but again, i think i would fail any test to distinguish & i certainly can't condone the pricing of this stuff.

wrt some questions concerning solder in the earlier posts, choose 63/37.  i tried a few different brands, but the cardas quad eutectic works really well & has one of the lowest melting points - you can get small qty on ebay.

<edit: it is 63/37 that is eutectic>

Quote:

Originally Posted by joelpearce 

I agree.  It is a little nuts.

 

Also, I wouldn't go that route unless you are fully aware of how bulky and heavy 4 21AWG wires wrapped in shielding and plastic.

not an expert, but i can answer some of your q's; just remember it's imo:

1. 'bassy' - no, all your other phones probably have more bass in stk form; 'mid-centric' - not particularly - but very smooth throughout - almost too smooth, like behind a slight veil - modding should reveal all.

2. ampless? - i would test, but stock cord is terminated with 1/4" trs

3. idk

4. idk, but those with deeper pockets have lauded the o2 pads aplenty.
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by crinacle 

Hey guys,

Before I attempt to purchase this remotely available headphone, I would like to ask you experts on a few questions.

1) What's the general sound signature in stock form? I've heard it's bassy mids-centric type.
2) Can it run ampless?
3) If not, is an E11 enough to power it?
4) What are the best pads to fit on it?

Were do you solder the wires, if you use multiple wires, do you simply twist them together at the end and solder to the terminal? And ground goes next it, soldered?

Quote:

Originally Posted by crinacle 

Hey guys,

Before I attempt to purchase this remotely available headphone, I would like to ask you experts on a few questions.

1) What's the general sound signature in stock form? I've heard it's bassy mids-centric type.
2) Can it run ampless?
3) If not, is an E11 enough to power it?
4) What are the best pads to fit on it?

In addition to what geetarman49 said: yes, an E11 will be fine.