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Just listened to some Fostex T50RPs today... WOW! - Page 671

post #10051 of 10678
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrscotchguy View Post

Price was the selling point originally, but I also like how they don't tangle much.  Depending on the color you choose, they can add some personality as well!

Unfortunately it looks like only black is available... Comparing these to my HE400s at the moment.

 

HOW ARE THESE SO CHEAP?

post #10052 of 10678
Why not paint them?
post #10053 of 10678
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesterphile View Post

Unfortunately it looks like only black is available... Comparing these to my HE400s at the moment.

 

HOW ARE THESE SO CHEAP?

 I don't know how to fully answer that question.  Here are the highlights:

 

1) Made originally for studio use with fully repairable parts (headband, yoke, plastic joints, cable, etc...)

2) Fostex designs most of their drivers and housing for other companies suchas Denon

3) I don't think Fostex has any real idea about how much potential their driver has (though I am sure that's changing with as many people making tons of money off T50rp mods)

4) The price shift after its massive HeadFi popularity went from ~$70 to ~$130.  That price shift is fairly massive considering Fostex went from selling to a market focused on studio application before the huge shift to a consumer market.

5) If Fostex wised up, they could easily build a finely tuned wood enclosure and drop the driver into it and compete with some upper tier headphones.  But why bother when it would take away business with their OEM contracts as well as create R&D costs.  As they say, "Why fix what ain't broke?"

 

A friend of mine who is a nuclear engineer came up with a theory about the Tx0rp line.  He jokingly suggests that originally Fostex gave the R&D department a large budget to come up with a new and innovative headphone driver.  Bob (we'll call the head of the department) decided to create the best damned driver their resources could make.  Bob being proud of his department's creation showed it to the big shots.  They said, "Well done, but because you used all the resources and time building this driver, we sent it off to the housing department.  They slapped it in some cheap plastic and look, it's now profitable!"

 

The lesson is, I feel, Fostex over engineered the driver and just stopped caring about the rest of it.  The shortcuts show, and that is why at stock, they are not worth spending much more than $100 on.  Had Fostex gone the distance, no one would have had the need to tear them open.  This massive modding community would never exist at its present state.  I feel the guys who built up this thread deserve a ton of credit and praise.  I know I have personally used information provided by LFF and BMF among many others, but it is the whole community support that truly amazes me each time I come back.   This thread has lasted so long because of the creativity and humility of everyone that participates.  I am amazed by how many people supply their information and results so freely. What the T50rp lacks in design, we've made up for with this community.  

 

Now that all the mushy-gushy stuff is out of the way, I would like to say, for any new comer, please take what is written in this thread as inspirations and not a blueprint.  Let's keep thinking outside the box to come up with new and innovative ways to push this driver even further.  No idea is too obscure (well except maybe Red Dixie Cup enclosures cool.gif)!

 

 

post #10054 of 10678
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrscotchguy View Post

 I don't know how to fully answer that question.  Here are the highlights:

 

1) Made originally for studio use with fully repairable parts (headband, yoke, plastic joints, cable, etc...)

2) Fostex designs most of their drivers and housing for other companies suchas Denon

3) I don't think Fostex has any real idea about how much potential their driver has (though I am sure that's changing with as many people making tons of money off T50rp mods)

4) The price shift after its massive HeadFi popularity went from ~$70 to ~$130.  That price shift is fairly massive considering Fostex went from selling to a market focused on studio application before the huge shift to a consumer market.

5) If Fostex wised up, they could easily build a finely tuned wood enclosure and drop the driver into it and compete with some upper tier headphones.  But why bother when it would take away business with their OEM contracts as well as create R&D costs.  As they say, "Why fix what ain't broke?"

 

A friend of mine who is a nuclear engineer came up with a theory about the Tx0rp line.  He jokingly suggests that originally Fostex gave the R&D department a large budget to come up with a new and innovative headphone driver.  Bob (we'll call the head of the department) decided to create the best damned driver their resources could make.  Bob being proud of his department's creation showed it to the big shots.  They said, "Well done, but because you used all the resources and time building this driver, we sent it off to the housing department.  They slapped it in some cheap plastic and look, it's now profitable!"

 

The lesson is, I feel, Fostex over engineered the driver and just stopped caring about the rest of it.  The shortcuts show, and that is why at stock, they are not worth spending much more than $100 on.  Had Fostex gone the distance, no one would have had the need to tear them open.  This massive modding community would never exist at its present state.  I feel the guys who built up this thread deserve a ton of credit and praise.  I know I have personally used information provided by LFF and BMF among many others, but it is the whole community support that truly amazes me each time I come back.   This thread has lasted so long because of the creativity and humility of everyone that participates.  I am amazed by how many people supply their information and results so freely. What the T50rp lacks in design, we've made up for with this community.  

 

Now that all the mushy-gushy stuff is out of the way, I would like to say, for any new comer, please take what is written in this thread as inspirations and not a blueprint.  Let's keep thinking outside the box to come up with new and innovative ways to push this driver even further.  No idea is too obscure (well except maybe Red Dixie Cup enclosures cool.gif)!

 

 

Over-engineered is very believable. I'm going to start reading through this behemoth of a thread for some ideas on where to start modding now. beerchug.gif

post #10055 of 10678
Talking about idea I can't help but think about progressive circum to hexagonal wood cups, with a switchable open/semi-closed/closed ports design...
Custom One Pro and a bit of M100 inside, if porting and sealing is that much effective on the driver (damping comes with it?), something can be done here to expand/isolate and set free/restrain some parameters of the sound with just the fingers...
About the hexagonal thing I wonder how it will affect soundstage and reverb (god saves the wood)

I need my cans to be shipped! Have work to do smily_headphones1.gif
post #10056 of 10678
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vanarian View Post

Talking about idea I can't help but think about progressive circum to hexagonal wood cups, with a switchable open/semi-closed/closed ports design...
Custom One Pro and a bit of M100 inside, if porting and sealing is that much effective on the driver (damping comes with it?), something can be done here to expand/isolate and set free/restrain some parameters of the sound with just the fingers...
About the hexagonal thing I wonder how it will affect soundstage and reverb (god saves the wood)

I need my cans to be shipped! Have work to do smily_headphones1.gif

Quite the undertaking, best of luck my friend.  Pictures please smily_headphones1.gif

post #10057 of 10678

Well... I did do a transplant of T50rp drivers into both a Crossfade and COP... the bass sliders on the COP really do make a difference. Not as big of one as the stock drivers, but very noticeable nonetheless.

post #10058 of 10678

I got my T50RP's about a week ago, and need a little advice on modding them.  I've been over BMF's guide (a lot), but some of the effects of the various pieces of the mod's are hard to isolate.  Now, I should mention that I don't have my Shure pads yet, so I'm not certain how that will change things; still, I don't really think it will cure everything, or prevent me from making meaningful changes.

 

I'm really only worried about the resonances, and I want to retain as much bass as possible.  I tried the felt over the back of the driver, and that seemed to help clean up the female vocal range.  I also filled the baffles with Blu-Tack; that quieted everything, but nuked the bass.  Same with the cotton balls, iirc.  I also covered the little hole on the ear side of the driver (just under the top of the ear pad) with a dot of BT.  Did nothing I could tell.  So now I have some questions:

 

Did using Blu-Tack change the effect of the filled baffles, i.e. filler shouldn't be dampening?  What properties should the filler material have?  Is that little hole on the ear side the "Baffle Port"?  Do I need to fill it with something else to achieve the desired results?  Are there any other things I should try to deaden the resonance (particularly male vocal range) that won't sacrifice bass, or simply improve the bass by itself?

 

That's about it for now.  I'll post if I come up with anything in the meantime.  Thanks for any suggestions you can come up with.
 

post #10059 of 10678
Quote:
Originally Posted by bucket indeed View Post

I got my T50RP's about a week ago, and need a little advice on modding them.  I've been over BMF's guide (a lot), but some of the effects of the various pieces of the mod's are hard to isolate.  Now, I should mention that I don't have my Shure pads yet, so I'm not certain how that will change things; still, I don't really think it will cure everything, or prevent me from making meaningful changes.

 

I'm really only worried about the resonances, and I want to retain as much bass as possible.  I tried the felt over the back of the driver, and that seemed to help clean up the female vocal range.  I also filled the baffles with Blu-Tack; that quieted everything, but nuked the bass.  Same with the cotton balls, iirc.  I also covered the little hole on the ear side of the driver (just under the top of the ear pad) with a dot of BT.  Did nothing I could tell.  So now I have some questions:

 

Did using Blu-Tack change the effect of the filled baffles, i.e. filler shouldn't be dampening?  What properties should the filler material have?  Is that little hole on the ear side the "Baffle Port"?  Do I need to fill it with something else to achieve the desired results?  Are there any other things I should try to deaden the resonance (particularly male vocal range) that won't sacrifice bass, or simply improve the bass by itself?

 

That's about it for now.  I'll post if I come up with anything in the meantime.  Thanks for any suggestions you can come up with.
 

 

BMF and I have been working on some ideas about pads.  He has concluded through testing that the 840 pads make a MASSIVE difference.  Isolation over stock is due mostly due to the seal.  I would reocmmend getting 840 pads ASAP.  They are on sale at Amazon currently, with free 1 day shipping by using Discover.  I personally hate the 840 pads, but am willing to reconsider them due to how easy BMF has made tuing with them.  

 

Follow BMF's DBV#3 to get an idea how to squeeze everything you can out of a T50rp.  Using his guides will help familarize yourself with the ins and outs of between different tweaks.  If you haven't read this thread, I would encourage you to: http://www.head-fi.org/t/618659/fostex-t50rp-incremental-mods-and-measurements#post_8535316

post #10060 of 10678

What's a DBV?

post #10061 of 10678

Are the T50RP worth getting if no mods are being done, B&H has them for $107 seems like a good price. I'm really not a diy person so do these sound good with just a amp

post #10062 of 10678
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snarff View Post

Are the T50RP worth getting if no mods are being done, B&H has them for $107 seems like a good price. I'm really not a diy person so do these sound good with just a amp

I think they are good for the price.  Very nice midrange.  Bass and treble are rolled off, though.  New pads will help with the bass (and comfort) and that is barely DIY.  I keep an unmodded pair around to compare my mods to and I still think they are a good value without modification.  With that said, their might be better headphones in that price range for you depending on your listening tastes.

post #10063 of 10678

After owning the T50RPs for months now, I decided to do some modifications. Light ones for a start then I will gradually move to more complicated ones.

 

In stock form, to my ears, they sound pretty much like everybody says. Nice midrange with quite a roll off on treble and lows. But I also hear nasty resonances that make the sound muddy and incomprehensible especially on loud volumes. I decided that it was obviously the cups which are naturally the Achilles heel of this headphone. I then began to stuff the inside of the cups with a fair amount of cotton pads and I made sure to not cover up the vent (tried that and the bass was just gone forever). I also stuffed the stock pads with cotton for more comfort.

 

The results are quite drastic with just a simple mod like that. Resonances have been greatly reduced and it sounds less muddy on high volumes and the sound is generally more controlled. The sound signature remains the same however but the strange characteristic of this headphone is that it tends to sound a lot better on high volumes than in low volumes.

I then replaced the stock pads with Hifiman pleather pads which fits perfectly. The bass is more present now but something is still missing. It sounds like it has lots of sub-bass but no punch or kick in it. Treble and upper midrange are also in need for improvement.

 

I'll guess the lack of kick and punch is caused by the baffles not being mass loaded. Next step, I will try to fill the baffles with modelling clay and if I ever want to go to the extreme route, silicone auto sealant and maybe Dynamat or other type of acoustic foam (if I can ever find it) for some extra dampening on the cups

I'm also thinking of making myself my own cable for it but that's on my lowest of priorities.

 

Such a shame that Fostex didn't bothered to develop a decent housing for an otherwise, excellent ortho driver. But still, $120 is quite a bargain for a headphone with massive potential that can rival $300 headphones. You just need to look for it and hit that sweet spot.

post #10064 of 10678
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snarff View Post

Are the T50RP worth getting if no mods are being done, B&H has them for $107 seems like a good price. I'm really not a diy person so do these sound good with just a amp


i'm going to offer a dissenting opinion here - imho, these are an awful value if you have no intention to mod (either now or later).  in stock form, you get a headphone that has no bass, no treble, mids that are smooth but definitely veiled/muffled (at least on my pair they are).  if you have no intention to mod, you will be throwing away $50 ... again, imo (i peg the resale value of used t50rp at ~$87 delivered).  in short, the experience will leave you so disillusioned about head-fier's recommendations that you will likely go out & tar & feather the next one you meet.

 

instead, go to tuesday morning and you might snag the koss tony bennett for $50 or order the carbon nanotube jvc ha-s500 from amazon (or the s400 from your local dealer).  i think you'll find these phones to be much more satisfying (& cheaper) in stock form than the t50rp ... & i'm sure that others could suggest quite a few more phones ...

 

i will also suggest that you find a pr of junkers (trash, garage sale, goodwill) and learn how to take them apart & put them together again w/o wrecking them.  this is the first step in learning how to mod ... overcome the apprehension of diy.  if you can do this, then by all means, buy the t50rp & embark on a journey to make yourself a great set of headphones at a bargain price.

all the steps to do this are well-documented & if you run into problems, there are plenty of folks here to offer a helping hand.

post #10065 of 10678
Quote:
Originally Posted by VortexBlast View Post

After owning the T50RPs for months now, I decided to do some modifications. Light ones for a start then I will gradually move to more complicated ones.

 

In stock form, to my ears, they sound pretty much like everybody says. Nice midrange with quite a roll off on treble and lows. But I also hear nasty resonances that make the sound muddy and incomprehensible especially on loud volumes. I decided that it was obviously the cups which are naturally the Achilles heel of this headphone. I then began to stuff the inside of the cups with a fair amount of cotton pads and I made sure to not cover up the vent (tried that and the bass was just gone forever). I also stuffed the stock pads with cotton for more comfort.

 

The results are quite drastic with just a simple mod like that. Resonances have been greatly reduced and it sounds less muddy on high volumes and the sound is generally more controlled. The sound signature remains the same however but the strange characteristic of this headphone is that it tends to sound a lot better on high volumes than in low volumes.

I then replaced the stock pads with Hifiman pleather pads which fits perfectly. The bass is more present now but something is still missing. It sounds like it has lots of sub-bass but no punch or kick in it. Treble and upper midrange are also in need for improvement.

 

I'll guess the lack of kick and punch is caused by the baffles not being mass loaded. Next step, I will try to fill the baffles with modelling clay and if I ever want to go to the extreme route, silicone auto sealant and maybe Dynamat or other type of acoustic foam (if I can ever find it) for some extra dampening on the cups

I'm also thinking of making myself my own cable for it but that's on my lowest of priorities.

 

Such a shame that Fostex didn't bothered to develop a decent housing for an otherwise, excellent ortho driver. But still, $120 is quite a bargain for a headphone with massive potential that can rival $300 headphones. You just need to look for it and hit that sweet spot.

- lack of kick & punch is due to loss of 'seal'  - too much air is escaping - you need to seal the gap (from inside the earcup) around the headphone jack; also between the earcup & baffle and also between the earpad & cup/baffle boundaries

 

- a treble reflector will greatly improve the hi-frequencies

 

- dynamat is messy & not needed

 

- those of us with successful mods have used:  acousti-pack lite (or similar), newplast modelling clay (or similar), rite-aid cotton (either rolled or balls), and shure 840 earcushions.

 

- custom cabling is not necessary, but eventually the stock cable will contribute to random dropouts so cleaning the headphone jack & headphone cable plug with de-oxit (or similar) is mandatory.

 

hth,

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