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Are people afraid to get involved, or just don't care?? - Page 9

post #121 of 134
11/1/09 at 10:21am
Bystander effect - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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post #122 of 134
11/1/09 at 12:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by subtle View Post
I think I'm confused. Are you suggesting that rape is not a crime?
The DA of California, who it should be mentioned studied the law during college and didn't rack up thousands of posts about headphones, determined that the individuals who did not participate in the act itself should not be tried, as it's not a crime to fail to report a crime against an adult. The legal cutoff in this sense is 14, not 18, so this 15 year old girl did not qualify.

Now, I think the merits of that policy are debatable, but there's absolutely no merit to vigilante murder in the name of justice, as nowhereman is suggesting.
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post #123 of 134
11/1/09 at 1:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sherwood View Post
The DA of California, who it should be mentioned studied the law during college and didn't rack up thousands of posts about headphones, determined that the individuals who did not participate in the act itself should not be tried, as it's not a crime to fail to report a crime against an adult. The legal cutoff in this sense is 14, not 18, so this 15 year old girl did not qualify.
I wouldn't go down that road. You joined later than I did, and you have more posts. In addition, why are you posting here about this topic? Are you a qualified lawyer to speak on this subject, or are you making a hypocrite of yourself? Lots of people here studied law during college, what is your point?

That is a ridiculous decision by the DA as well. To determine a cutoff age of reporting a crime? You friggin' kidding me? What a puss. He just did not have the balls to do what he should have. It does not matter if the person was a 3 year old or a 99 year old. To sit by and watch a rape without reporting it should result in a severe punishment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sherwood View Post
Now, I think the merits of that policy are debatable, but there's absolutely no merit to vigilante murder in the name of justice, as nowhereman is suggesting.
nowhereman, that's a good one. Justice is subjective. One person's "vigilanteism" is another one's justice. Kinda like the tired debates we have about differences headphones and cables, only this topic actually matters.
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post #124 of 134
11/1/09 at 2:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by chinesekiwi View Post
Yeah, that seems to be a main part of the reason.
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post #125 of 134
11/1/09 at 3:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by roadtonowhere08 View Post
I wouldn't go down that road. You joined later than I did, and you have more posts. In addition, why are you posting here about this topic? Are you a qualified lawyer to speak on this subject, or are you making a hypocrite of yourself? Lots of people here studied law during college, what is your point?
Naturally, we're all aware of our post counts. That's why I didn't post my legal opinion, I posted the legal opinion of the man who makes the decisions. That is none of us, unless one of us happens to be the DA.

Quote:
Originally Posted by roadtonowhere08 View Post
That is a ridiculous decision by the DA as well. To determine a cutoff age of reporting a crime? You friggin' kidding me? What a puss. He just did not have the balls to do what he should have. It does not matter if the person was a 3 year old or a 99 year old. To sit by and watch a rape without reporting it should result in a severe punishment.
Be that as it may, he didn't pull this out of nowhere. That is the law in California, decided upon by its citizens and learned men. I would argue that it's beyond any of us not practicing law in California to make normative decisions about that law. Of course, there are a number of forum denizens who DO practice law in California -- I'm eager to hear from them, should they choose to weigh in.

Of course, it's not about "balls", it's about actual justice, which is determined by the law, not by your feelings. He could go ahead and act against the law, but it wouldn't change anything.

All of what I've spoken of is based on what I've read regarding this case, none of it is my personal opinion. To venture an opinion, though, I think it is barbaric of us to circle the wagons and speak of murdering those individuals who witnessed this crime. I believe in our due process in this country, and how it deals with criminals. It's not perfect, but I fully believe it's better in all cases than vigilantism.
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post #126 of 134
11/1/09 at 3:11pm
So if the victim is discovered to be a female, it makes the situation worse?
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post #127 of 134
11/1/09 at 5:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sherwood View Post
Naturally, we're all aware of our post counts. That's why I didn't post my legal opinion, I posted the legal opinion of the man who makes the decisions. That is none of us, unless one of us happens to be the DA.
I believe the intent of this type of thread is to gauge reactions and opinions. I posted mine, and others have as well. You are more than welcome to stay on the reporting side, but please do not post snide remarks about our lack of training on the legalities on this topic when we choose to post our opinions. Of course most of us are not lawyers, but should that prevent us from weighing in on the subject? If you want to take that idea further, why have open elections? Clearly most people are not informed enough when voting.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Sherwood View Post
Be that as it may, he didn't pull this out of nowhere. That is the law in California, decided upon by its citizens and learned men. I would argue that it's beyond any of us not practicing law in California to make normative decisions about that law. Of course, there are a number of forum denizens who DO practice law in California -- I'm eager to hear from them, should they choose to weigh in.
I am sure you know that the law of the land sways with public opinion and social/political climate on a lot of issues. A textbook example would be Roe v. Wade. This would also be one of them. If the outrage was great enough, you bet your butt the bystanders would be tried, and an effort would be brought forth to change the law.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Sherwood View Post
Of course, it's not about "balls", it's about actual justice, which is determined by the law, not by your feelings. He could go ahead and act against the law, but it wouldn't change anything.
Almost all laws are set because of feelings. Pick a statute. We feel that murder is bad, so we outlaw it. We feel that rape is bad, so we outlaw it. Our laws are based on how we wanted to be treated. That is a feeling.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Sherwood View Post
All of what I've spoken of is based on what I've read regarding this case, none of it is my personal opinion. To venture an opinion, though, I think it is barbaric of us to circle the wagons and speak of murdering those individuals who witnessed this crime. I believe in our due process in this country, and how it deals with criminals. It's not perfect, but I fully believe it's better in all cases than vigilantism.
You'll have to excuse my lack of faith in our justice system when the rich get off and the poor get thrown in jail. Why would I have faith in a system that does not punish those that look on as a rape is being committed just because the girl was 15 instead of 14? I could care less about the law as it stands now, because the law failed that girl. If something is broken, you fix it.
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post #128 of 134
11/1/09 at 5:05pm
Please just give me and the girls dad a few minutes alone with the "perps"...oh please
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post #129 of 134
11/2/09 at 1:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sherwood View Post
I would argue that it's beyond any of us not practicing law in California to make normative decisions about that law.
Even though I agree with you in principle on this case, I can't agree with this statement. I can see why lay people shouldn't make positive decisions about the laws in California, given that most of us aren't exactly professionals in that field. But saying that lay people shouldn't make normative decisions about the law? Sorry, don't see it and agree with roadtonowhere08 on this count. Pretty much all criminal laws are just codified normative decisions by lay people, and saying that lay people shouldn't be able to have an opinion is a mite bit absurd.
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post #130 of 134
11/2/09 at 1:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fido2 View Post
Please just give me and the girls dad a few minutes alone with the "perps"...oh please
I see someone has been listening to some Pantera
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post #131 of 134
11/2/09 at 2:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sherwood View Post
Now, I think the merits of that policy are debatable, but there's absolutely no merit to vigilante murder in the name of justice, as nowhereman is suggesting.
x2

There is a big difference between having a discussion about changing laws and taking the law into your own hands.
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post #132 of 134
11/2/09 at 3:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by frozenice View Post
x2

There is a big difference between having a discussion about changing laws and taking the law into your own hands.
Who said I was advocating people killing anyone on their own? Notice how I quoted "vigilantism"? I am advocating capital punishment for the rapists and those who stood by and watched it as a sport. I also said that I would try to help the girl from being gang raped.

Where did I say that people should round them up and shoot them vigilante style? While I applaud the expediency of such approach, even I would not go that far.
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post #133 of 134
11/2/09 at 6:51am
This reminds me of that Japanese girl who was kidnapped and tortured for 44 days or something and there were about a 100 people who knew she was being kept there including her parents. Man that was disgusting
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post #134 of 134
11/2/09 at 12:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by roadtonowhere08 View Post
I see someone has been listening to some Pantera

Hee...
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