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HE-5..initial musings - Page 28

post #406 of 1668
Thread Starter 

Some words about Power...and how it's wielded!

O.K. folks! We have to be on the same page with the arithmetic needs of Power (in Watts) and how the physical laws applies.

To achieve and maintain an output waveform at (1) Watt with no clipping of the signal waveform we need (10) Watts on tap. To run at (10) Watts continuous with no clipping of the output waveform we need (100) Watts. See the Logarithmic (and Allegory) progression? Likewise a 100 Watt waveform would need 1000 Watts to back it up (and yes I'm keeping it elemental for a teaching aid).
And yes, the 10 milliwatt would need a hundred milliwatt etc......

And these steady-state loads, for progression examples, are ideals! The real world is more brutal.

I smiled at the reaction of a member that exclaimed "that's ridiculous" after he had read that member Thinker had tried the HE-5 from Krell Mono's. 300 Watts O.M.G.!!

Power has never really been an issue with the broad spectrum of headphones. Holding a 1/4 in. plug in your teeth and rubbing your sockie-feet on the carpet is enough in most instances. Even the hard to drive Senn 6XX is relatively easy in comparison.

Member Zanth wrote that the EAR HP-4 has one watt output and called it plenty for the HD800...not really. He knew this but has forgotten!

Headphone amps have a lot more in common with Pre-Amps than Speaker amps, noise being the qualifying issue. Brute force wasn't, till now wanted, needed, or cared about. Times change! And we have to change with them!

And I almost forgot about damping factor and back EMF and the Hazards it causes for Headphone amps that weren't structured for the by-product of current demand of Planars...a whole nuther' can-o-worms folks!
post #407 of 1668
Quote:
Originally Posted by achristilaw View Post
I smiled at the reaction of a member that exclaimed "that's ridiculous" after he had read that member Thinker had tried the HE-5 from Krell Mono's. 300 Watts O.M.G.!!
Glad to have brightened up your day

Obviously, I need to do some reading up on orthos- it's just that 830-page thread looks a little daunting! Where does one start?

Surely the HE-5 has some kind of power handling limit before they blow up? A pair of Bryston 28B SST's perhaps?
post #408 of 1668
Quote:
Originally Posted by tintin47 View Post
Honestly, buy a CK2III. It was outclassed only by some super high end SS amps at the meet.
Are you saying the Ck2III outclassed most amps in general or with the HE-5.
post #409 of 1668
No, but it was very very good, and it wasn't beaten by much even by the beta.
post #410 of 1668
Quote:
Originally Posted by tintin47 View Post
No, but it was very very good, and it wasn't beaten by much even by the beta.
Do you know how it compared with the m3?

Sorry about mucking up the thread with amp questions....
post #411 of 1668
Many of the vintage orthos have a recommended power rating of 2-3W and a max of 10W, iirc the SFI drivers that folk were playing with had similar specs. Seems like some experimenting is needed - hook up a multimeter across the headphone while it is being driven and see what sort of current it is using - use a 1KHz waveform to keep things steady.

Remember that power is a function of the impedance of the driver and the voltage or current flowing through it.

The maximum power handling is going to be dependent on the heat dissipation of the driver - thicker wider traces suggest higher power handling abilities for the HE5 but the "thinness" of the element would also play a role.

..dB
post #412 of 1668
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silenced View Post
Do you know how it compared with the m3?

Sorry about mucking up the thread with amp questions....
I preferred the CKKIII over the M3 , and threads are all about useful tangents, so long as we steer them back occasionally . The CKKIII is an exceptional amplifier, it's simplicity and low cost often leave it undervalued.

..dB
post #413 of 1668
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silenced View Post
Do you know how it compared with the m3?

Sorry about mucking up the thread with amp questions....
NOT AT ALL BROTHER!! This thread has amp questions and great information from front to back! My Beta's ain't got enough oomph! I could raise the gain to ridiculous levels but at the expense of not having compatibility with my other phones.

My solution is needed because I LISTEN TO CLASSICAL A LOT AND NEED THE WIDE DYNAMIC CAPABILITY!

I'm using a Speaker Amp! Not Headphone! Lot's of info from this AND the Ortho thread on amp suggestions.
post #414 of 1668
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrainFood View Post
Glad to have brightened up your day

Obviously, I need to do some reading up on orthos- it's just that 830-page thread looks a little daunting! Where does one start?

Surely the HE-5 has some kind of power handling limit before they blow up? A pair of Bryston 28B SST's perhaps?
Ohm's Law is a good place to start! YOU DAMAGE SPEAKER DRIVERS FIRST BY UNDER POWERING THEM!!! Repeat!! You will damage any driver by the non-linear nature of the driving amp WHEN the amp can't control the driver. How does this happen? When the amp is no longer in the "Driver" seat!

If the amp "clips" it causes huge spikes and surges that aren't part of the regular Music signal, and the driver still wanting to take orders from the amp, tries to mimic that non-linear signal....OOPS....Driver Damage! (Yes, again simplified).

I'm suspecting your ears will explode before you melt the Panels of the Ortho. YOU CAN OVERDRIVE THEM ALSO. BUT lets not go there...that would be a Bryston double punk.
post #415 of 1668
Quote:
Originally Posted by achristilaw View Post
NOT AT ALL BROTHER!! This thread has amp questions and great information from front to back! My Beta's ain't got enough oomph! I could raise the gain to ridiculous levels but at the expense of not having compatibility with my other phones.

My solution is needed because I LISTEN TO CLASSICAL A LOT AND NEED THE WIDE DYNAMIC CAPABILITY!

I'm using a Speaker Amp! Not Headphone! Lot's of info from this AND the Ortho thread on amp suggestions.
Noob ortho power question: Head-Direct choices for HE-5?

Qinpu A-6000MkII or T-1(ebay) speaker amps vs. EF5 head amp

.
post #416 of 1668
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lmswjm View Post
Noob ortho power question: Head-Direct choices for HE-5?

Qinpu A-6000MkII or T-1(ebay) speaker amps vs. EF5 head amp

.
A good and valid question! But you might be hard-pressed to find someone who has used all three with the HE-5.... The EF-5 has it's own thread in the amp section. Might want to pose the question in both locations!!

And the other two might find some hits in the Ortho thread. Member Wualta, dBel84 and Sachu or Scompton, perhaps Kabeer might have used those..or know someone who has. They are the resident Ortho kings (among others)!
post #417 of 1668
Was just scratching in the cupboard looking for the crown jewels

No direct experience here, both hybrids and should have enough power but only your ears will tell ..dB
post #418 of 1668
Quote:
Originally Posted by lmswjm View Post
Noob ortho power question: Head-Direct choices for HE-5?

Qinpu A-6000MkII or T-1(ebay) speaker amps vs. EF5 head amp

.
I have the smaller 8-watt Qinpu A-3 which is just able to power a K1000 from the speaker outputs, but the 1/8" output is better for HD600 than low impedance current hungry full-size phones like the HE-5. The A-6000MkII might be better and I wish I could answer that part of the question, but the EF5 was made for the HE-5 and they do make a good pairing. I got them on Friday and have been burning them in since, but they have been great right out of the box.
post #419 of 1668
SO is there a consensus? Is the ef5 the best option for this phone under 500$?
post #420 of 1668
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silenced View Post
SO is there a consensus? Is the ef5 the best option for this phone under 500$?
Umm i think there are only one or two folks who have heard the HE-5 on the EF-5 so it is much too early to call for a consensus.

I can tell you though that this SOHA-2 will kick some serious butt in that price range. It will power the HE-5 and sound great with ease. It can drive my Wharfedale ID1 means the HE-5 is a piece of cake for it. I have heard the HE-5 on this particular SOHA-2 and can't recommend it enough for anyone looking for quality amplification.

edit: yes I am listening to this amp right now
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