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USB to SPDIF converters shoot-out : EMU 0404 USB vs. Musiland Monitor 01 USD vs. Teralink-x vs. M2Tech hiFace - Page 36  

post #526 of 1712
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheShaman View Post
But on the same album, SACD or DVD-A sound better than the CD version as does 24/96 and 24/192 over 16/44.1..
My audiophool friends and I have done numerous "blind" tests on Steely Dan and other (very well mastered) albums that we have on both versions and the result is the same (90% of the times, at least)..
I also have done comparisons of Steely Dan's CD vs DVDA formats and the differences are obvious to me. My technical analysis however indicates there are significant differences in mastering between CD, DVDA Stereo and DVDA Surround. In some cases a careful downmix of the surround tracks to 2-channel stereo gives the best result (IMHO).
post #527 of 1712
Quote:
I tried the EMU 0404 USB with both its USB input and optical/coaxial inputs and it sounded average at best. Its analog stage really lacks resolution, subjective frequency extension and naturalness compared to the other dacs I have auditioned.
Anyway, since it is a DIGITAL to ANALOG converter, it is supposed to also be good at the digital section.
By the way, the jitter specs listed on the EMU are meaningless. All it says : "Ultra-low jitter clock subsystem: < 500ps RMS in PLL mode (48kHz, Coaxial S/PDIF Sync)". So it doesn't say how and at what level it was measured.
yes, except the PCI version says <100 PS, this seems to suggest the pci version would perform about 5x better then the usb version. As the Emu 0404, is also a soundcard, and music interface, with recording options, guitar, mic input, headphone amp, dac, etc, I think you might be being a little to hard on it. It was never designed to be an audiophile dac, it's really meant for amateur recording.
post #528 of 1712
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeW View Post
no i was not joking, that udac looks pretty series for 99$. ESS 9018 dac chip, no caps or op-amps. Plus it also has spdif output functionality. I would not be surprized if it's better then what alot of people are using with their USB to SPDIF transport. read the thread about it, looks like a giant killer, competing with dacs that cost 4-5x higher.
The trouble is, Mike, you are posting about gear you have no experience with. "Looks like" is meaningless, we want to know about sound quality. There are very few people on Head-fi whom I'd consider capable of actually looking at the internals of a product and accurately predicting how it would perform, and even they would be hesitant to do that.

Quote:
Im sure im gonna stir the ant pile in this thread lol as people flock to protect their purchase. Don't hate, i've been around here awhile and it's just my opinion.
More likely the ants nest of people who don't really like people talking out of their arse.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeW View Post
Super Audio CD, and DVD-Audio, as well as some Digital Downloads can be attained in the higher resolutions, but DVD-A is only 24/48, I think SACD is 24/96. Unfortunatly the reason these formats might sound slightly better is all in the mastering, they are normally mastered to a higher standard, and if they where put in 16/44.1 format would sound just about identical. You can't hear more then 16/44.1 as it all comes down to Dynamic Range, and 16/44.1 already has more then we can hear. Other reasons there might be a difference would be DACS themselves, some dac's may process the higher bitrates differently, some may improve, others may get worse.

You also need special hardware to playback DVD-Audio and SACD, you can't pop one in a computer and go, and many dac's are not compaitible with it either. So even if you do have special hardware, it had better be really high end, for example you could have an Oppo 980H DVD-player, it will play back DVD Audio and SACD, but your now using the players built in dacs and output stage, which are not great, even a low end stand alone dac can better it, there go's all your supposed advantage of DVD-A and SACD.
You forgot that you can't do digital output with SACD players when playing back the SACD layer. Best to check your facts in future before posting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by audioengr View Post
The pinout does vary between Empirical Audio and Northstar. They are reversed.

The best I2S cable I have found is Revelation Audio Labs:
Revelation Audio Labs: digital cables

I can get one for you fairly quickly. I'm about to put in another order. Email me.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio
Steve, I suggest doing a search for Revelation Audio Labs on here before suggesting them. The owner has a reputation for taking money and not delivering products, at least for a very long time, along with false promises of delivery and whatnot.
post #529 of 1712
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeW View Post
yes, except the PCI version says <100 PS, this seems to suggest the pci version would perform about 5x better then the usb version. As the Emu 0404, is also a soundcard, and music interface, with recording options, guitar, mic input, headphone amp, dac, etc, I think you might be being a little to hard on it. It was never designed to be an audiophile dac, it's really meant for amateur recording.
MikeW,

Once again, you are totally wrong about what you are stating concerning gear you don't even own.

Looking at EMU's website, here is what I found out :
EMU 0404 USB : Ultra-low jitter clock subsystem: < 500ps RMS in PLL mode (48kHz, Coaxial S/PDIF Sync)
EMU 0404 PCI : Ultra-low jitter, clock subsystem: < 1 ns in PLL mode (44.1kHz, Opt. S/PDIF Sync)

So you were (once again) wrong about claiming the 0404 PCI had 100ps which would have been 5x better than the USB version. (For your information : 1ns=1000ps.)

Since many claims you have made about gear you don't even own seem to be inaccurate at best, could you please limit your posts to gear you actually own or have listened to ?
There is absolutely no point in stating that YOU think that A is better than B if you have not listened to both. It is not very helpful and we have to waste time to check if it is true or not.
post #530 of 1712
Quote:
Originally Posted by audioengr View Post
The pinout does vary between Empirical Audio and Northstar. They are reversed.

The best I2S cable I have found is Revelation Audio Labs:
Revelation Audio Labs: digital cables

I can get one for you fairly quickly. I'm about to put in another order. Email me.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio
Thanks a lot Steven, I have a RAL cable for my Ultrasones and its fantastic!

E mail sent.
post #531 of 1712
Quote:
Originally Posted by Currawong View Post
The trouble is, Mike, you are posting about gear you have no experience with. "Looks like" is meaningless, we want to know about sound quality. There are very few people on Head-fi whom I'd consider capable of actually looking at the internals of a product and accurately predicting how it would perform, and even they would be hesitant to do that.



More likely the ants nest of people who don't really like people talking out of their arse.



You forgot that you can't do digital output with SACD players when playing back the SACD layer. Best to check your facts in future before posting.



Steve, I suggest doing a search for Revelation Audio Labs on here before suggesting them. The owner has a reputation for taking money and not delivering products, at least for a very long time, along with false promises of delivery and whatnot.
I have seen this. I have a good business relationship with Brad, so I get results.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio
post #532 of 1712
Quote:
Originally Posted by Currawong View Post

You forgot that you can't do digital output with SACD players when playing back the SACD layer. Best to check your facts in future before posting.
Wrong!

Some Oppo players *do* output SACD layer via HDMI in original DSD or converted to PCM format. Not many DACs have HDMI inputs, but you can easily use a proper receiver to pass through the digital stream to Coax/SPDIF (probably only PCM, but its still digital and better than analog outputs).

Best to check your facts in future before posting.
post #533 of 1712
Alright, I guess i've been a bit out of line and some of you guys post have convinced me of the error of my ways. I'll cool it for now, and try to limit my opinions to gear I own and have personally heard.

Concerning the SACD I think you misunderstood what I was saying. I meant that the Player itself must be high end and have good dacs and output, because you can't stream it to an outboard dac, and a good outboard dac playing back standard CD audio would sound way better then mediocre SACD.

I saw the specs on the EMU website, but I had it in my head that 1NS was 100 PS. Guess i'll take a back seat in this thread and just observe, im still not convinced these products are worth the money. But I digress.

My apologies,
Mike
post #534 of 1712
Quote:
Originally Posted by gevorg View Post
Wrong!

Some Oppo players *do* output SACD layer via HDMI in original DSD or converted to PCM format. Not many DACs have HDMI inputs, but you can easily use a proper receiver to pass through the digital stream to Coax/SPDIF (probably only PCM, but its still digital and better than analog outputs).

Best to check your facts in future before posting.
Doh, I was thinking of regular coax or optical, not HDMI, but anyway, that doesn't count.

MikeW: Goodonya.
post #535 of 1712

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post #536 of 1712
Wait. Amarra costs 1K? You are kidding right?

OMG. ROTFLMAO. J. River is $40......LOL. Foobar is free!

iTunes is unusable, so to stay Mac you need 1K for your player? That is so rich, I love it. I've heard Amarra mentioned for a long time; what a sham.


Quote:
Originally Posted by rosgr63 View Post
Lee, I could justify $1300 for a good USB to SPDIF converter, one like yours for example, but I cannot justify $999 for a media player like Amorra.
I know I am probably wrong but that's how I see it.
BTW I use your USB CryoParts Cable and I have heard the difference!
It's great!
post #537 of 1712
Quote:
Originally Posted by doctorcilantro View Post
Wait. Amarra costs 1K? You are kidding right?

OMG. ROTFLMAO. J. River is $40......LOL. Foobar is free!

iTunes is unusable, so to stay Mac you need 1K for your player? That is so rich, I love it. I've heard Amarra mentioned for a long time; what a sham.
I find iTunes excellent with my Mac, that's what I use and it's free!
post #538 of 1712
ROTFLMHO!

Quote:
Originally Posted by nick_charles View Post
RE: short vs long digital cable blind tests







Sigh. I have just read the "blind" test !

Steve, I am somewhat miffed with you that you persuaded me (and miffed with myself as well of course) to part with $7.91 for this piece of fluff masqerading as blind tests.

Lets summarize. They "tested" cable A in 1m then cable A in 1.5m , then cable B in 1m then cable B in 1.5M.

1) One of the **listeners** knew which cables were which at all times. This is weak !

2) Each cable/length combination was tested at one session and tested only once !

3) For each trial the listeners **knew** that the cable was changed from the previous one

4) At no point were listeners asked which cable they were listening to (even as A,B,C,D) i.e they were never required to test if they could actually tell the cables apart in a direct comparison.

5) Each combo sounded better than the preceding one.

6) No random order of presentation.

As a controlled test of cable effects it is frankly not up to snuff
post #539 of 1712
Quote:
Originally Posted by rosgr63 View Post
I find iTunes excellent with my Mac, that's what I use and it's free!
Okay, what else have you tried on your Mac for music, photo, and video organization/playback?

No offense, but unless you shell out 395/999 for Amarra you're stuck with a rather limited way to experience and organize your media.

I'd like to hear more about upsampling in software which I do because I'm lazy (Patchmix doesn't auto switch sample rates; SSRC?) so I leave it as I have vinyl ripped at 24/96 and native 24/96 material.

Next week I will bring some people over and ABX the Musiland (BNC), HiFace (BNC), Nova USB, 1616M (BNC) with the same source material.

DC
post #540 of 1712
Quote:
Originally Posted by doctorcilantro View Post
Okay, what else have you tried on your Mac for music, photo, and video organization/playback?

No offense, but unless you shell out 395/999 for Amarra you're stuck with a rather limited way to experience and organize your media.

I'd like to hear more about upsampling in software which I do because I'm lazy (Patchmix doesn't auto switch sample rates; SSRC?) so I leave it as I have vinyl ripped at 24/96 and native 24/96 material.

Next week I will bring some people over and ABX the Musiland (BNC), HiFace (BNC), Nova USB, 1616M (BNC) with the same source material.

DC
Hi, No offence taken.

Amarra runs off iTunes, iTunes must be running for Amarra.
BTW I have tried it with 3 systems, a low end one where I noticed improvment, a mid level and a high end one where there was no improvement!
Please note these are my findings with my systems, I am sure Amarra is good it just didn't always work for me.

As for Photo organisation I use Aperture, Lightroom and Media Expression.

My music/video libraries are organised via iTunes.
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Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Dedicated Source Components › USB to SPDIF converters shoot-out : EMU 0404 USB vs. Musiland Monitor 01 USD vs. Teralink-x vs. M2Tech hiFace