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USB to SPDIF converters shoot-out : EMU 0404 USB vs. Musiland Monitor 01 USD vs. Teralink-x vs. M2Tech hiFace - Page 108  

post #1606 of 1712



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by slim.a View Post




Thanks for sharing your impressions soulrider4ever.

 

I also agree that it was hard going through the last pages. Could we please go back on topic.

For those who wish to further discuss which mods are more suitable for the hiface, I already started a separate thread (here: http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/483900/review-jkeny-s-modified-hiface).



We are talking about modding the HiFace and the signal produced by it and you jump in and say "can we get back on topic?"

Was that needed? -there has been no bickering for awhile now.


Edited by ROBSCIX - 6/18/10 at 9:39am
post #1607 of 1712

The circuit shown by TI datasheet is wrong I'm afraid.  The impedance will be correct, but the voltage is out of spec.  The correct circuit is a series cap driving a series 470 ohm resistor with a 1K ohm resistor across the transformer.  This will match the 75 ohm impedance and the voltage will be 500mV. Even the guys at TI that wrote this datasheet did not have enough experience with S/PDIF.

 

Steve N.

Empirical Audio

post #1608 of 1712



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by audioengr View Post

The circuit shown by TI datasheet is wrong I'm afraid.  The impedance will be correct, but the voltage is out of spec.  The correct circuit is a series cap driving a series 470 ohm resistor with a 1K ohm resistor across the transformer.  This will match the 75 ohm impedance and the voltage will be 500mV. Even the guys at TI that wrote this datasheet did not have enough experience with S/PDIF.

 

Steve N.

Empirical Audio


Good to know. Thanks.

post #1609 of 1712

Another thing I noticed is Vio is speced for 2.7V and is being supplied at 3.3V on the hiface which may also be causing a high output?   but it seems that SteveN's suggestion is the one to try,  he is definately right about TI engineers and anything audio,  things were much better with the burr-brown engineers.

post #1610 of 1712
Quote:
Originally Posted by slim.a View Post




Hi regal,

 

Have you compared your modded hiface to other transports? Did you notice any change in sound with the stock hiface after the burn-in period?



Yes the mod made a huge improvement,  better than anything I've heard.  I think w deduced that I have a crappy USB supply from my old MB.  Others have reported issues like I had with the stock Hiface corrected when upgrading to a PCi USB card.  Plus I'm running a lot of hard drives and probably taxing my powersupply.   

post #1611 of 1712

Dear all,

 

I would like to "reinforce" again my earlier statements. I look at this "feature" of the Hiface unit, the non-standard high output level, as a gift, rather than a problem. Because with normal levels the usage of an attenuator gives more problems than benefits. The standard receivers widely applied in the industry do not like even the standard levels, forget about less!

 

Would like to repeat, the attenuator is NOT a remedy for the level problem, it's a clean-up device for the SPDIF signal transmission problem! What I feel missing here is the common sensation, about how hard it is to put together a good working SPDIF line. Because it's not ONLY a good cable; a good transmitter, a good receiver. It's all of these AND the right interfacing between them. 

Because we are injecting high speed RF energy into a transmission line, and would like to recover a clean signal at the output.

But the injected energy must go somewhere, if it remains in the system bouncing up and down, it will just muddy up the output. For this we should aim for resistive termination impedances everywhere, so as to burn away into heat the injected energy at these termination points. BUT it usually does not work! The line impedance mismatches, the connectors, the transformers applied, all the stray capacitances which sneak into the picture are causing deviations from the ideal termination condition, spoiling the result.

So, a good quality, factory guaranteed resistive element inserted into the line helps greatly to damp, burn away the extra energy and restore the clean conditions.

I would not "repair" the Hiface!

 

Ciao, George


Edited by joseph k - 6/18/10 at 10:56am
post #1612 of 1712
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ROBSCIX View Post



 



We are talking about modding the HiFace and the signal produced by it and you jump in and say "can we get back on topic?"

Was that needed? -there has been no bickering for awhile now.


Since I am the one who started the thread, I might perhaps know what is on topic? Don't you think?

What I am suggesting is to post the modding posts on the other thread, and leave this thread for the listening impressions that can be understood by the "average joe", like soulrider4ever suggested it.

post #1613 of 1712
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by regal View Post





Yes the mod made a huge improvement,  better than anything I've heard.  I think w deduced that I have a crappy USB supply from my old MB.  Others have reported issues like I had with the stock Hiface corrected when upgrading to a PCi USB card.  Plus I'm running a lot of hard drives and probably taxing my powersupply.   


Thanks for your impressions. This explains perhaps why they were conflincting views sometimes about the stock Hiface. Until I used jkeny's modded hiface, I was using my stock hiface in a notebook plugged in a power filter (separted from the rest of the audio chain). So it might explain why I never found it harsh sounding (contrary to the EMU 0404 usb and the Musiland 01 usd which I found to be on the dry side of neutral).

post #1614 of 1712

Another point, or say, a different approach:

How many of You has a traceable, factory guaranteed input impedance certification, included in the documentation of his favorite DAC?

I'm talking about something like the "graphs" section here:

 

http://www.minicircuits.com/cgi-bin/modelsearch?model=HAT-10-75&search_type=info

 

Or the "Typical performance data" included in the datasheet.

 

This is the data which tells about the reflectivity of your unit!

 

Put on the input of your Dac an attenuator like this, and voila! you have your input with a certified quality!

 

Ciao, George

 

post #1615 of 1712
Quote:
Originally Posted by punk_guy182 View Post

@jkeny

 

Yay! The mini-circuits link that you posted works for me now! 

This seems to be the right attenuator for the hiFace and my DAC according to Joseph K: http://www.minicircuits.com/cgi-bin/modelsearch?model=HAT-10-75&search_type=info

I wonder if you could get the same model with both Male BNC plugs.

No. You will only find BNC in-line attenuators with M/F or F/F.

 

Off-hand, I can not think of a source for the barrels, used in those devices. You could buy some, cannibalize some BNCs, and make your own. I used to work at a very large, yet extremely cheap, company, that thought it was better to make them in-house. No way you could buy the parts for much less than $14. Add to that the cost of labor. But for DIY, sure, why not.

 

If I can locate a source for the barrels, I will link it.

 

Jocko
 

post #1616 of 1712


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by slim.a View Post




Since I am the one who started the thread, I might perhaps know what is on topic? Don't you think?

What I am suggesting is to post the modding posts on the other thread, and leave this thread for the listening impressions that can be understood by the "average joe", like soulrider4ever suggested it.


Starting a thread does not imply ownership...people have been talking about the hiface for quite a few pages and are still talking about it.

Sorry that the conversation doesn't meet with your approval but that is no reason to jump in a conversation and try and break it up.

This is a discussion forum...discussions evolve on their own.  Some of the best exchanges of information and ideas just happen...


Edited by ROBSCIX - 6/18/10 at 1:34pm
post #1617 of 1712
Quote:
Originally Posted by grokit View Post


This is all new to me but I've been trying to follow along. From the converters I am looking at, the M2Tech HiFace looks to eliminate the USB cable, but the (@ 3x the cost) Halide Bridge is geared towards the opposite, where they provide a 6' USB cable and have a (both cryo'd I think) 10' USB extension available.

 

They seem to be geared to eliminating different cables, as the HiFace can go right into a USB port without a cable, and the Bridge is geared towards plugging directly into a DAC's BNC input. Is the difference between the two devices' approach part of the "additional factors" that Jocko is referring to?

 

I really like the form factor of the Bridge, but the price is overkill for my budget. It would cost more than my DAC, which is the balanced Matrix Mini-i with a BNC in. If anyone is familiar with the Matrix do you think it would match up well with the HiFace BNC version? If so, would an attenuator be desirable in between that combo? And finally which level of resistance?

 

Or would the bridge be much better and more worth it, with the goal of perhaps upgrading the Matrix DAC at some point to say a Bel Canto DAC 2 or even a Chord DAC 64? Is BNC even the same as coaxial?

 

Most realistically I would get the HiFace and match it with my Matrix for some time if you guys think they would compliment each other.

 

Thanks in advance for any assistance given with my silly newbie questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by soulrider4ever View Post

Hey,  I have the Matrix mini-i and just got my cheapo BNC to BNC male adapter from china, yes, it's probably 50ohms, but it looks like that 75ohm adapter someone else posted.  At any rate - the difference was rather significant over the BJC BNC cable I had purchased, the SQ has improved soundstage as well as the 'body' of the sound, I will definitely NOT be going back to a BNC cable as I am using a 6" USB extension cord that came with my patriot thumb drive.  IMO this was the absolute best $2 I have ever spent on my audio system. 

 

how can I the average Joe get better SQ.


AJ here again, bumping my original questions to see if I can get any more specific answers. Soulrider, are you using the HiFace with your Matrix? I can't really tell from your response. The Matrix does have 75 ohm input impedance, does that means it need resistance (how much?) or just a 75ohm adapter?

post #1618 of 1712
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ROBSCIX View Post


 


Starting a thread does not imply ownership...people have been talking about the hiface for quite a few pages and are still talking about it.

Sorry that the conversation doesn't meet with your approval but that is no reason to jump in a conversation and try and break it up.

This is a discussion forum...discussions evolve on their own.  Some of the best exchanges of information and ideas just happen...


AGAIN, this thread has gone off topic these last few pages and I asked politely to limit the comments to subjective listening.

 

If you had taken the time to read through the 100+ pages, you would understand why I don't want to let this go. THIS IS NOT A DIY FORUM but rather Dedicated source components forum. The title of this thread as well as my first post clearly indicates what this thread is aims at. A lot of people enjoyed and found what was in this thread helpful and useful.

 

There is a difference between a discussion that evolves and a discussion that branches out. If you don't like the subject, you (and some others) can start your own thread. If you disregard what I am asking for, you are just showing disrespect to me and the many people who wish this thread to stay on topic.


So I am asking nicely once again, please let's go back to the subject. If you are not happy with, what is stopping you from starting a new thread?

post #1619 of 1712

You need to relax slim...way too often you blow things out of proportion.

post #1620 of 1712
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shahrose View Post

You need to relax slim...way too often you blow things out of proportion.


And as you usual, you don't miss an accasion to make a nice comment towards me Great contribution as always Shahrose!

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