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USB to SPDIF converters shoot-out : EMU 0404 USB vs. Musiland Monitor 01 USD vs. Teralink-x vs. M2Tech hiFace - Page 99  

post #1471 of 1712
Quote:
Originally Posted by jkeny View Post




You miss the point - this adaptor will not degrade the sound , in fact it will enhance the sound & not just because it's short but because of another trick that I'll keep to myself until I've tested it. This trick will reduce the effect of cables & adaptors in the signal path & reduces the effect that reflections will have. Should be interesting :)

I'm refreshing my browser every half hour to see if you have updated your webpage with new info on your mod. It would be nice to put some pictures also of your modified USB cable.
 

post #1472 of 1712
Quote:
Originally Posted by jkeny View Post

You're making a lot of assumptions in that statement :) There are compromises in almost all products & I could point them out in the hIface BUT they probably did meet their design goals - was this one of them?

 


I'm sorry, I still don't understand.  Perhaps you could explain it a little more.

 

My HiFace came with a female RCA and a male USB, what difference would it have made if it had a male RCA and a female USB?  My only assumption was that they had the option of trying it either way and chose the one that sounded the best.

 

USG

post #1473 of 1712
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by upstateguy View Post




I'm sorry, I still don't understand.  Perhaps you could explain it a little more.

 

My HiFace came with a female RCA and a male USB, what difference would it have made if it had a male RCA and a female USB?  My only assumption was that they had the option of trying it either way and chose the one that sounded the best.

 

USG


Well, I heard back from Marco yesterday. They don't seem to have done the testing you are suggesting. He said that using a usb extender and plugging the hiface directly to the DAC will work as long as long as the usb extender works well with USB 2.0. 

 

Getting rid of the spdif cable is something new that would have been impossible to do with CD transport before. With these new small async usb converters, it is something that is possible since they don't seem to be affected by the quality of the usb cable (jitter-wise). Here is an example of 2 converters that uses such a principle:

http://www.halidedesign.com/bridge/

http://www.audiophilleo.com/audiophilleo1.aspx

post #1474 of 1712

Has anyone tried the Firestone Bravo? It's supposedly very good..

post #1475 of 1712
Quote:
Originally Posted by punk_guy182 View Post



I'm refreshing my browser every half hour to see if you have updated your webpage with new info on your mod. It would be nice to put some pictures also of your modified USB cable.
 

Your wasting your time - it's not going to happen that fast. The "trick" BNC adaptor will reduce reflections on the digital line thereby minimising the effects of all these impedance mismatches i.e it's the equivalent of a very expensive SPDIF cable (for a pittance) except it will work on existing SPDIF cables & even will overcome some of the problems of BNC/RCA adaptor issues. It will only come in BNC at the moment. The things I do! 

 

I won't be putting up a pic of the USB cable or a video of the modified Hiface - please stop asking me to do this via email & on my website. There's nothing to be gained by it.


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by upstateguy View Post




I'm sorry, I still don't understand.  Perhaps you could explain it a little more.

 

My HiFace came with a female RCA and a male USB, what difference would it have made if it had a male RCA and a female USB?  My only assumption was that they had the option of trying it either way and chose the one that sounded the best.

 

USG


I'm not sure that M2tech would have tried all the options when designing the Hiface, do you? They had certain design goals & when these were met job was done! In the same vein, I don't think they tried all voltage regulators & then settled on the one that's on the Hiface, do you? 

 

Edit: It's kinda like some people said to me about my modifications - "well if it was that simple, why didn't M2tech do it"


Edited by jkeny - 6/8/10 at 3:43am
post #1476 of 1712

hi jkenny,

 

your mods can be more addictive than nicotine. I like following your harry porter style of episodes.

post #1477 of 1712
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccschua View Post

hi jkenny,

 

your mods can be more addictive than nicotine. I like following your harry porter style of episodes.


Well light that stogie from the Goblet of Fire cause things are getting exciting - sorry for the crap attempt at humour :)

 

One proviso - this trick connector will only work with the Hiface!!


Edited by jkeny - 6/8/10 at 4:35am
post #1478 of 1712


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by slim.a View Post




Well, I heard back from Marco yesterday. They don't seem to have done the testing you are suggesting. He said that using a usb extender and plugging the hiface directly to the DAC will work as long as long as the usb extender works well with USB 2.0. 

 

Getting rid of the spdif cable is something new that would have been impossible to do with CD transport before. With these new small async usb converters, it is something that is possible since they don't seem to be affected by the quality of the usb cable (jitter-wise). Here is an example of 2 converters that uses such a principle:

http://www.halidedesign.com/bridge/

http://www.audiophilleo.com/audiophilleo1.aspx


Thanks Slim. 
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jkeny View Post


I'm not sure that M2tech would have tried all the options when designing the Hiface, do you? They had certain design goals & when these were met job was done! In the same vein, I don't think they tried all voltage regulators & then settled on the one that's on the Hiface, do you? 

 

Edit: It's kinda like some people said to me about my modifications - "well if it was that simple, why didn't M2tech do it"


Hi jkeny

 

Trying the other connectors isn't rocket science.  I would have tried it, you would have tried it, slim would have tried it and anyone who had the brains to design the HiFace would have tried it.  They thought of BNC, didn't they.  It's too simple, I don't buy that they didn't think it.  Do you?

 

USG

 

post #1479 of 1712

OK, USG, who knows what design processes it went through, I don't.

post #1480 of 1712
Quote:
Originally Posted by jkeny View Post

OK, USG, who knows what design processes it went through, I don't.



Their design engineers had salesmen for boss's.  Salesmen said I want 24/192 in a small package for laptops,  make it sound good but keep it under x$'s.  This wasn't designed to be some end all audiophile USB component.  They aren't Arye by any means.

post #1481 of 1712


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by regal View Post

Their design engineers had salesmen for boss's.  Salesmen said I want 24/192 in a small package for laptops,  make it sound good but keep it under x$'s.  This wasn't designed to be some end all audiophile USB component.  They aren't Arye by any means.

 

Oh never mind.................


Edited by upstateguy - 6/10/10 at 2:38am
post #1482 of 1712

Here's what Marco Manunta just wrote to me regarding this issue:

 

"Our aim was to avoid using the USB cable which is generally the worst link of the chain."

 

USG

post #1483 of 1712
Quote:
Originally Posted by upstateguy View Post

Here's what Marco Manunta just wrote to me regarding this issue:

"Our aim was to avoid using the USB cable which is generally the worst link of the chain."


Having said that, the hiFace Evo will need an USB A-B cable to connect.

post #1484 of 1712
Quote:
Originally Posted by upstateguy View Post

Here's what Marco Manunta just wrote to me regarding this issue:

 

"Our aim was to avoid using the USB cable which is generally the worst link of the chain."

 

USG

 

Aren't asynchronous USB-SPDIF converters supposed to be immune to the quality of USB cables? How can an USB cable be the "worst link of the chain" compared to a digital cable?  My mind refuses to understand it.  If what Marco says is true, then it contradicts to the design concept of Halide Design S/PDIF Bridge (www.halidedesign.com/bridge/).

post #1485 of 1712
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by upstateguy View Post

Here's what Marco Manunta just wrote to me regarding this issue:

 

"Our aim was to avoid using the USB cable which is generally the worst link of the chain."

 

USG


That is what they aimed for. It doesn't mean they spent hours in critical listening in order to see which was the better. When I asked Marco if plugging the Hiface directly to the DAC, he didn't give a straight answer as I don't think he even tried it.

 

As you know, I like a lot the Hiface but this usb cable vs. digital cable is something they didn't think through enough and they didn't experiment with enough in my opinon.

Also, as regal pointed out, a company like m2tech is a small one and doesn't have the luxury to test every possibility. If they had spent months listening to different set-ups, choosing carefully every regulator, the clocks... we wouldn't be looking at a $150 but more something like $500+.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ironmine View Post

 

Aren't asynchronous USB-SPDIF converters supposed to be immune to the quality of USB cables? How can an USB cable be the "worst link of the chain" compared to a digital cable?  My mind refuses to understand it.  If what Marco says is true, then it contradicts to the design concept of Halide Design S/PDIF Bridge (www.halidedesign.com/bridge/).


Yes, ironically the usb cable affects most adaptive devices. The only effect the usb cable can have on a well designed async converter is on its power supply (EMI/RFI).

When I tried briefly the usb extender with the stock hiface, the change in sound was minimal in comparison with a change in digital cable. With jikeny's modified hiface, I find it very difficult to hear any difference between usb extenders.

 

My personal guess is that the guys at Halide Design are in the right track. The async operation makes the quality of the usb cable relatively irrelevant (except for carrying the power supply), so why not get rid of the digital cable that increases the jitter?

 

By the way, halide design are not only ones to follow that route: Audiophilleo is also suggesting to use a BNC to BNC adaptor to connect their converter to the DAC without using a digital filter.
Funny think, they included a feature called "virtualcable" to achieve a similar effect to changing the digital cable (by adding different level of jitter).

 

Personally, if I didn't have jkeny's modified hiface, I would have probably tried one of the two as they are clearly one step ahead of the stock hiface (albeit at a much higher price).

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Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Dedicated Source Components › USB to SPDIF converters shoot-out : EMU 0404 USB vs. Musiland Monitor 01 USD vs. Teralink-x vs. M2Tech hiFace