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Klipsch Image S4? - Page 5

post #61 of 622
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrbrad View Post
I have had a pair of S4s for about 3 weeks now. After reading so many good things about them, I am disappointed in their performance. The Bass is excessive and very bloated or boomy, however you want to describe it. This is coming from an iPod, which is not known for its bass production. I did use the Bass reduction equalizer feature of the iPod and it improved dramatically. I have burned them in for probably 30 hours or so, but I am not getting any improvement. Does anyone think the bass will calm down with additional usage? If not, I will be sending the back this week.

Thanks for your help.
According to what I heard, after 100hrs and then on the S4 will exhibit its best. Try continue burn-in and if it didn't work, you should return them
post #62 of 622
Sorry for the boomy bass problems. I guess I just don't hear it. I do hear bass, but as I have noted, when they crossed the 100-hour or so mark, both the bass tamed down and the treble got in line. But if that doesn't work for you, that's why they have the money back guarantee.

Burn-in wise, I hooked them up to a PC HP out and turned the volume up to 3/4 or so. Let them sit there for 4 straight days (after being disappointed in the first 10-20 hours of listening).
post #63 of 622
You gotta cook them!

I listen to my Zune at a normal 10 or 11. I cooked the S4s at 14 to 17 for 8-10 hours at a stretch in between listening to them. The bass got tighter around 40 hours and the trebles calmed down around that point, too, enough for me (I like 'em bright.).

Tstarn06's method, detailed above, works. Crank up the volume and let them simmer for a long time. Pick some songs that you really like and use them for your test bed. Listen for those particular nuances that you really like in each song. That guitar riff or that drum sequence, whatever. The presentation should change with this method. I stopped listening to mine critically after a couple of weeks and began to just enjoy the music.

If you are listening to low bit-rate files, I don't know what to tell you to expect. The lowest I have are 192K WMA for my Zune and the presentation changed on my S4s after doing this. It's a great set of phones, IMO. I hope you get to enjoy yours, but YMMV...
post #64 of 622
I'm still maintaining my position that burn-in is actually a psychological effect, but I have to admit all this talk about the S4's has me intrigued. Someone who can afford two sets of S4's really should do a double-blind test. Come on, any real scientists out there?
post #65 of 622
A burn-in deny-er, eh? Well, no need for scientists (or HFers with spare cash). The burn-in issue, when it comes to dynamic phones, has been debated and discussed way beyond the point where another experiment or discussion is needed. They changed, no doubt about it. As Ripley would say, Believe it or Not!
post #66 of 622
Someone needs to buy 20 sets of S4's. Take ten of them and run some random music through them for 100 hours. Do nothing with the other ten. Assign random numbers to all 20. Then send all 20 to tstarn and have him listen to them all and tell us which ones were burned in.

Tstarn, you are a very knowledgeable and thoughtful earphone enthusiast. And you could very well be right about burn-in, but I'm still not convinced. If I had an extra couple thousand dollars lying around, I'd do this myself.
post #67 of 622
Quote:
Originally Posted by tstarn06 View Post
A burn-in deny-er, eh? Well, no need for scientists (or HFers with spare cash). The burn-in issue, when it comes to dynamic phones, has been debated and discussed way beyond the point where another experiment or discussion is needed. They changed, no doubt about it. As Ripley would say, Believe it or Not!
The existence of burn-in is not answered by debate and subjective evaluations which can vary greatly by mood, environment, and group think.

scott549 idea would be a sound test of burn-in and would demonstrate burn-in. I strongly support the idea of "brain-in" but have zero believe in burn-in, especially the way it's presented on Head-Fi.

If nothing else at least demonstrate a change in FR or distortion greater than the changes variations typically seen from changes in head or in ear placement.

Burn in for 100 hours? I don't believe it. Here's one reason for why. A brand new car needs, at most, 3000 miles of burn in for the engine. Given that people in the USA typically probably drive 30+ mph on average, even a car needs less than 100 hours of burn in.

Somehow a tiny moving diaphragm needs more burn in then a car engine which has so many moving parts that regularly expand and contract? They also rub against bearings and metal surfaces with nothing more for lubricant than a tiny bit of oil.

On a different note, tstarn06 - you have the UM3X and the S4. How is the bass of the UM3X compared to the S4?
post #68 of 622
Again, I now there already is thread after thread on this, and frankly it's a pretty "burned in" subject. LOL. I didn't like the way they sounded out of the box. I left the S4s playing on my PC for 4 days, which is 100 hours, that's all. When I took them off, they sounded much better to me. What can I say? Call me a liar. There was no brain burn-in, because I never had them on the entire time. Worked for me.

Engine burn-in vs. dynamic IEM burn-in? Not sure it's apples to apples. And I believe most of today's cars require no burn-in at all (not like they used to recommend with the first 500 miles, break-in oil and all that). But

As for bass on the S4s vs. UM3X, the Westones exhibit a tighter, higher impact bass sound to my ears (in the sense that impact is more taut that boomy), though more balanced with the other frequencies than the Image S4. The S4s are a bit boomy, but not enough to bother me. When I use them with my Sony, I just EQ the Clear Bass back a click. Otherwise, though, they are fine, but just not as extended and smooth as the Westones.
post #69 of 622
As for burn-in/break-in someone conducted a test with 4" speakers. No mention of audible differences but measurements were made at 0,30,50, and 70 hours. 8 different specs are measured.

How the Audax AP100Z0 loudspeaker drivers were broken-in and the T/S parameters measured.
post #70 of 622
Quote:
Originally Posted by tstarn06 View Post
When I took them off, they sounded much better to me. What can I say? Call me a liar. There was no brain burn-in, because I never had them on the entire time. Worked for me.
I am definitely not calling you a liar. I am saying that one explanation for why they sounded better is that you expected them to sound better. Not sure, but that could be the explanation. The brain is very powerful. Another analogy -- some days when I'm driving to work my car feels totally different, like it's handling way better, acceleration is smoother, etc. This is probably not due to physical differences in the car. Rather, it's my own perception.
post #71 of 622
As I said, the issue is fully burned-in for me. I really have no idea, nor care. Nothing personal. This thread is really not the place for the umpteenth "Burn-in: Real or Imaginary?" discussion. I am sure there is another dynamic IEM thread just begging for a burn-in/no burn-in post. Go for it.

The car driving analogy, by the way, only applies after leaving a car wash after your car was really dirty. My take on it, at least.
post #72 of 622
I have a tip tip.... As I continue to listen to them over the initial couple days, it occurred to me that since Klipsch's nozzles seem to be a hair larger than the typical skinny affair, and since the Sony Hybrid silicones seem to be very tight installing on the standard wide nozzle, perhaps they'd fit the Image S4's. Viola. They go right on. They come off somewhat easily, but they don't just come right off in your ears as you remove the earphones. They offer better isolation to my ears than the gels, and also seem to increase the frequency spectrum a bit. I really like them on the S4's.
post #73 of 622
too bad they're like 10 bucks for a multiple size kit which makes it inconvenient.
post #74 of 622
Quote:
Originally Posted by cn11 View Post
I have a tip tip.... As I continue to listen to them over the initial couple days, it occurred to me that since Klipsch's nozzles seem to be a hair larger than the typical skinny affair, and since the Sony Hybrid silicones seem to be very tight installing on the standard wide nozzle, perhaps they'd fit the Image S4's. Viola. They go right on. They come off somewhat easily, but they don't just come right off in your ears as you remove the earphones. They offer better isolation to my ears than the gels, and also seem to increase the frequency spectrum a bit. I really like them on the S4's.
Good idea, I am going to try my Sony tips on my S4 when they come, but I have the feeling that the gels are going to be too comfortable to part with.
post #75 of 622
Quote:
Originally Posted by cn11 View Post
I have a tip tip.... As I continue to listen to them over the initial couple days, it occurred to me that since Klipsch's nozzles seem to be a hair larger than the typical skinny affair, and since the Sony Hybrid silicones seem to be very tight installing on the standard wide nozzle, perhaps they'd fit the Image S4's. Viola. They go right on. They come off somewhat easily, but they don't just come right off in your ears as you remove the earphones. They offer better isolation to my ears than the gels, and also seem to increase the frequency spectrum a bit. I really like them on the S4's.
Welcome to the S4 club. Did you experience any harshness out of the box. Just wondered because you are a dynamic fan. Burn-in so far? Also, I have every Sony Hybrid and haven't tried them, but with the latest discover that the UM56s give the S4s a fantastic SQ boost, I've mainly been using those custom sleeves (I've discovered they are a worthwhile purchase even more because they work with the UM3X, the S4 and now the im616). I also had been favoring the Shure soft flex mediums as the easy in/easy out sleeves, but no reason not to try the hybrids.
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