What DAC+Amp to buy? (expensive or not)

I prefer "speakers/headphones first" approach - to me differences between different cans/loudspeakers are a lot bigger than between CD players/DACs/amplifiers and thus easier to perceive. Unless the latter are really bad/incompatible with your speakers/cans - in many cases they sound similar or differences are pretty small (forget about all these "night and day" differences found in many reviews ). So, if I were you, I'd look for cans that you will like the best (and spend the majority of the budget on them) and then look for a decent source and amp for them.

I would say that you should go for a reasonably priced amp and a separate DAC. The lower end OTL tube amps (little dot, DV, etc) or mid-fi SS (CK2III, M^3, Gilmore lite, EC/SS) and a reasonably good DAC like the DACmagic. That kind of a set up would make your 650s sound very good, and it wouldn't break the bank.

It all depends on how much you're willing to spend and what your goal is. If you just want the best, I would suggest going separates and getting the HD800. If you want to take the journey through different DACs and Amps, then I would start at least with a compass. You will hear a difference and might appreciate the differences when you upgrade later on. You might even be able to find that point where the extra money to you is not worth it so you won't have to go all the way up to an isabellina if you didn't want to. Personally if I had the money to spend on the big boys, I would just get those and be done with it. However, I don't regret my purchases because each purchase has given me a new insight on this hobby and what it means to me.

A high-end rig will give you more clarity, especially with HD-800s, but this isn't always a good thing, as a lot of music, especially that which is poorly recorded, doesn't sound so great. For example, do you really want to hear the hiss of the crap that is laid over Alicia Keys voice when she sings? It's very apparent on a high-end rig.

Maybe if you tell us about the kind of music you listen to, that with help.

How about Grace M902

Usually you get much better performance with separate pieces. The selection of 2 in one pieces of equipment is much, much smaller than the overall suggestion. On top of that, separate components are usually higher quality than the two components in any single box solution.

Although the above is good advice, to begin, I cannot stop recommending the compass. Get it, and maybe $100-150 ish phones, and you will hear a difference. It is what I did, and I am happy no upgrading for a while (I still want to, but this is good enough that I never really feel that anything is clearly wrong). Plus, the 3 HDAMs and jumper settings allow for a nice tweaking experience. As a college student, the $800 or so I spend on 3 Headphones and the Compass is a lot, but if is one of the few things I have never really regretted buying (after I heard it, that is).

-Nkk

EDIT: If money is not too big of a worry, get the Little dot Dac 1 and MKVII and balance your HD650s. That should hold you over for a while and that difference you will almost definitely hear.

I feel like everybody's journey is different. The compass would be a great start if not the end for some people. I know some of more expensive cans are good because i've either heard them or know somebody who have compared both mine and the more expensive ones. While there's the chance of thinking something is better because it's more expensive, the best way to counter it is just trying them out from a friend or borrowing some. You could always try the headroom 30 day guarantee. Worst thing that could happen is to pay a restocking fee since sometimes you can sell off basically new cans for more than what you would get compared to paying the restocking fee.

Is that really true? I thought the DAC1, Lavry DA11, Grace M902 are very well regarded stand alone DAC's on this forum aswell?

I think the journey is more fun, but more expensive. However, there are two primary types of differences between headphones, amps and sources IMO: Tonal differences, and detail/resolution differences. A lot of gear tricks you into enjoying the sound because of the former, such as headphones with a lot of bass and mid-bass that sound fun, but the audiophile, IMO, primarily seeks the latter, to the degree that is useful for the music being listened to. In the end, one is seeking the combination of both that is most pleasing. If you can afford to start with something like a Lavry DA11, I don't see why you shouldn't go for it. If you don't mind spending money on a bunch of cheaper headphones, amps and DACs and playing around, then that will be interesting for you as well. You'll find that Head-fi is really mostly about audio gadgets and what is "flavour of the months" and few people are truly interested in purity of sound, but it's cheaper to play around with gear that is only a few hundred dollars than it is if it's a few thousand dollars.

I'm going to second the Compass suggestion, not just because I started the thread that brought about its existence, but because if you want to play around and get some idea about headphones and sound, it can be tweaked in many ways, eg: by substituting different amplification circuits (OPAMPs or HDAMs) which result in slight tonal differences that effect one's perception of the music, which I found to be educational for me when I was starting out. There's quite a bit of other gear out there where you can do this, but again understand it's more gadget-related than getting the purest audio signal to your ears, which would involve equipment with the lowest distortion of the signal possible, not just different (though possibly more pleasing) distortion.

I hope these thoughts are helpful.

Eh, if you are okay with spending a little extra money, I wouldn't buy a Compass. I was not a huge fan of its sound, and while it's a good value for what it costs, I wouldn't recommend it unless cost was the driving factor in your decision.

I agree with above posters that you need to figure out how deep into this you want to get. A decent DAC and amp will make your 650s sound better, but (IMO) still far from what you would hear with, say, an Isabellina+HD800 combo. If cost is no object, you will get noticeably better sound from a higher-end combination (assuming the music you're listening to is well-recorded and uncompressed/lossless).

In terms of recommendations, I heard a Peachtree Nova for the first time last weekend in Denver, and I thought it sounded really excellent. There's a used one for sale on Audiogon here.

I also agree with the "Headphone first" approach.
The main headphone using will affect the DAC/AMP choice a lot.
I was looking for DAC&AMP in one machine.
I pick m902 over Corda Symphony simply because the latter is not a good match with my GS-1000.
But given there are many happy users of Corda products, I bet it definitely match with some other phones very well.
Moreover, although many people use m902 on various phones, Grace did indicate that the machine is not designed for high impedence phones.

In the end, you're looking for the match, great phones and great DAC or amps can be bad matches.