Head-Fi.org › Forums › Misc.-Category Forums › Music › Perfect Music... annoying?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Perfect Music... annoying? - Page 2

post #16 of 26
10/14/09 at 12:44pm
Thread Starter 
If I strongly preferred Goodbye Blue Sky and Comfortably Numb, where would you guys point me to next?
Reply
post #17 of 26
10/15/09 at 10:36am
People say this sort of thing all the time - I am afraid I cannot agree. Some mistakes or sibilances (such as charlie mingus laughing off mic) are cool characteristics that I enjoy, but they don't really add anything to music; if the music and musicians are good then the emotions will be conveyed through the performance, music or textures.

Who wouldn't want their favourite album recorded in pristine quality? A fool, that's who.

MrGreen out.
Reply
post #18 of 26
10/15/09 at 10:43am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrGreen View Post
People say this sort of thing all the time - I am afraid I cannot agree. Some mistakes or sibilances (such as charlie mingus laughing off mic) are cool characteristics that I enjoy, but they don't really add anything to music; if the music and musicians are good then the emotions will be conveyed through the performance, music or textures.

Who wouldn't want their favourite album recorded in pristine quality? A fool, that's who.

MrGreen out.
Personally, I like the flaws and imperfections, the one thing I wish all albums had on the perfect side is a noiseless background, IE, I'm tired of hearing white noise if I turn it up. I want a dark and blank background when I'm listening. Some albums have it, some don't. Some of my headphones make it plain as day, some are more forgiving, but I could live without it ENTIRELY.
Reply
post #19 of 26
10/15/09 at 10:49am
If someone breaks a string during the piece and you hear it and enjoy it great. But would you really like the album any less if it wasn't there? I doubt it.
If you would, I've got some fantastic sound effect cds lying around you can listen to all day.
MrGreen out.
Reply
post #20 of 26
10/15/09 at 11:37am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrGreen View Post
If someone breaks a string during the piece and you hear it and enjoy it great. But would you really like the album any less if it wasn't there? I doubt it.
If you would, I've got some fantastic sound effect cds lying around you can listen to all day.
MrGreen out.
You have albums that are more real and intimate, and then you have albums that are so fake sounding, you could swear the people didn't exist.

Stuff like what most radios play these days, the typical hip-hop/alt-rock mix./ All you hear is the guitar strumming, and the voice, you never hear them lick thier lips, you never hear them take a breath, you never hear thier fingers move up and down the guitar stem, you never hear anything that reinforces the illusion.

Also, the sarcastic remark about the sound effect CD was not required nor appreciated. Your taste in music may differ from mine and from what I've seen in this thread, what other people appreciate as well.

I am saying very specifically it enhances the music by making it sound real, and alive, something any hi-fi person is after, isn't it?
Reply
post #21 of 26
10/15/09 at 11:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aynjell View Post
You have albums that are more real and intimate, and then you have albums that are so fake sounding, you could swear the people didn't exist.

Stuff like what most radios play these days, the typical hip-hop/alt-rock mix./ All you hear is the guitar strumming, and the voice, you never hear them lick thier lips, you never hear them take a breath, you never hear thier fingers move up and down the guitar stem, you never hear anything that reinforces the illusion.

Also, the sarcastic remark about the sound effect CD was not required nor appreciated. Your taste in music may differ from mine and from what I've seen in this thread, what other people appreciate as well.

I am saying very specifically it enhances the music by making it sound real, and alive, something any hi-fi person is after, isn't it?
That is an issue of bad music, rather than 'perfect music'. Music is 33% sound, 33% emotion/psychological, and 33% visual. If a recording is excessively dry that it doesnt do the music justice then it is severely lacking and you are only getting 33% of music (and from albums you are only getting 66%). This is why live shows are important; because you can potentially get closer to 100%. A lot of studio work sounds way better than live - but people go live to see the music being made.

Logic cannot be faulted, and people who think 'perfect music' is boring are just plain wrong by simple definition. Music is about enjoyment - music without enjoyment is not perfect. Of course this brings in an interesting subject of personal taste affecting what "perfect" (or rather, the more attainable 'almost perfect') is.

If you want to define "perfect" as it sounds completely flawless - even then I disagree with you. Quality recording and music is few and far between - I will take it as it comes. Infected mushroom (if I may use them as an example) have extremely high production values and sound quite close to perfect. Are they boring? Not at all.
MrGreen out.
Reply
post #22 of 26
10/15/09 at 12:19pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrGreen View Post
That is an issue of bad music, rather than 'perfect music'. Music is 33% sound, 33% emotion/psychological, and 33% visual. If a recording is excessively dry that it doesnt do the music justice then it is severely lacking and you are only getting 33% of music (and from albums you are only getting 66%). This is why live shows are important; because you can potentially get closer to 100%. A lot of studio work sounds way better than live - but people go live to see the music being made.

Logic cannot be faulted, and people who think 'perfect music' is boring are just plain wrong by simple definition. Music is about enjoyment - music without enjoyment is not perfect. Of course this brings in an interesting subject of personal taste affecting what "perfect" (or rather, the more attainable 'almost perfect') is.

If you want to define "perfect" as it sounds completely flawless - even then I disagree with you. Quality recording and music is few and far between - I will take it as it comes. Infected mushroom (if I may use them as an example) have extremely high production values and sound quite close to perfect. Are they boring? Not at all.
MrGreen out.
Then you must not have read this thread very well, I understand I may not have defined it correctly, stuff like nickelback, with almost 0 subtlety and nothing that helps bring the illusion closer to reality... it's just background noise music, and I'm finding a lot of that to be the case with electronic music. Sure some, if not a lot of it has great detail and amazing quality, but music to me, without the subtle nuances (I don't go to live shows but the rest of my family are musicians to some degree) and not hearing the things I've described prior breaks the illusion.

I defined "perfect" (notice the quotations) as music more or less purified of the subtle nuances like somebody's hand bumping the guitar body or the strings actually hitting the pick as opposed to just hearing the sound they would make had they been strummed. A lot of this is missing in the album I'm listening to right now, The Wall, but it doesn't bother me because it's steeped with emotion.

To a degree, you're arguing a point that was never even made here, and I apologize that I wasn't clear in my definition of "so called perfect". If you want a good definition of the kind of music I hate, see contemporary or even mainstream christian music. It's typically forced sounding, and is usually purged of such things.

I like to be reminded that the person I'm listening to is human, simple as that. (I don't go to big time shows, but occasionally I'll watch friends play and that's as real as it gets, being 3-4 feet from the guy playing the guitar, and knowing "hey, that's my dad" or "hey, I work out with this guy" adds yet another level).

So, if you're still arguing this point you're missing what I'm saying. If you want a good example of an album that has all these imperfections and sounds amazing to me, see: Jose Gonzalez - Veneer

One album that seems a lot more polished that I like and sounds really good is: Ayreon - The Human Equation

I can't give a good example of a bad album, off the top of my head, but if you've ever heard the album veneer you know what I was looking for. (though for some reason my mind wanders to staind as being one of these "washed" and "perfect" sounding bands that doesn't do it for me)

Above all else, i'm looking for more albums with those subtle nuances, not an argument with whether or not I can describe it perfectly or if you disagree or dislike my taste in music. Take that argument elsewhere, please. (AKA stop trolling)
Reply
post #23 of 26
10/15/09 at 12:32pm
I addressed the above in my remarks about Infected Mushroom.
Although electronic music typically has very little go wrong in the recording, there are parallels between it and acoustic music. Is a piece of music boring because nothing went wrong? What about the hypothetical situation where everything occurs perfectly?
Removing a tiny piece of sibilance from a single track from a cardioid microphone and can essentially not remove anything from the music. Typically a tap of the guitar body is removed becuase it is considered noise rather than music. If it is done effectively, there should be roughly no musical difference between the before and after.
What you are getting at is the engineer doing a poor job, inappropriate use of synthetic instruments or the musicians underperforming perhaps.

A piece of music isnt boring because sibilance is removed, nor is it exciting because a musician makes a 'mistake'.
Reply
post #24 of 26
10/15/09 at 12:43pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrGreen View Post
I addressed the above in my remarks about Infected Mushroom.
Although electronic music typically has very little go wrong in the recording, there are parallels between it and acoustic music. Is a piece of music boring because nothing went wrong? What about the hypothetical situation where everything occurs perfectly?
Removing a tiny piece of sibilance from a single track from a cardioid microphone and can essentially not remove anything from the music. Typically a tap of the guitar body is removed becuase it is considered noise rather than music. If it is done effectively, there should be roughly no musical difference between the before and after.
What you are getting at is the engineer doing a poor job, inappropriate use of synthetic instruments or the musicians underperforming perhaps.

A piece of music isnt boring because sibilance is removed, nor is it exciting because a musician makes a 'mistake'.
I would appreciate it if you'd stop arguing the point with me. Our tastes obviously differ and arguing this (since we have diametric opinions) is not solving anything.

Like, I said though, I DO feel that recordings that wash away the other sounds you'd hear from a guitar being played as being less exciting and less real, and I said nothing about sibilance or for that matter a musician making a mistake or a string breaking. I'm specifically talking about music that lacks the sounds that go hand and hand with a guitar being played, and you can't get that through your skull so you can't contribute to this thread, which was started to find more music that has these sounds in it. To me those sounds are NOT noise, they are PART of a guitar being played and should be in the recording.
Reply
post #25 of 26
10/15/09 at 12:52pm
What you are suggesting is categorically untrue. Physics itself classifies between sound and music - and we as people should be able to as well. It is simple artistic license for the people to be able to remove the sounds they do not require or do not wish to be present in the recording just as it is their own right to over emphasis the sound of a pick on a guitar string.
I do not see how removing an unwanted sound (such as a sneeze in the distance), provided it is done tastefully detracts from music at all and can indeed enhance it.
Reply
post #26 of 26
10/15/09 at 12:55pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrGreen View Post
What you are suggesting is categorically untrue. Physics itself classifies between sound and music - and we as people should be able to as well. It is simple artistic license for the people to be able to remove the sounds they do not require or do not wish to be present in the recording just as it is their own right to over emphasis the sound of a pick on a guitar string.
I do not see how removing an unwanted sound (such as a sneeze in the distance), provided it is done tastefully detracts from music at all and can indeed enhance it.
Who said anything about sneezes? I don't want to argue the point, I was strictly looking for music suggestions. Please, stop.
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Music
Head-Fi.org › Forums › Misc.-Category Forums › Music › Perfect Music... annoying?