Hifiman 801 Appreciation thread - Page 18

Another amp in my collection

Another news update regarding 801. In near future, (1) the new 801 internal memory will be upgraded 8GB due to short supply of 2GB chip. (2) RE262 will be included. (3) the default amp module will be replaced by the upcoming 'power' amp module.

hi all.

i am very interested in a hifiman 801 ... love the idea of having a single unit ...but the thing that stops me is a lack of eq

i know i will probably raise a few eyebrows from the hardcore audiophile who plays everything 'direct'  but i grew up with tone on amps and then eq seperates

i even had the priviledge of owning a sony walkman in 86 or thereabouts which was 110 pounds in those days which had a five band graphic which was great with my 8 pound blank tapes with my

records recorded direct to them

so, do i forget eq and hope for the best or go for a sflo2 or some such which has eq and then buy a portable amp

this also defeats the object that so many clamour for of having a line out; i assume line out means no eq.

am i just not up to speed on the sheer quality of line direct , quality amplification ...

or are there many out there who wish for a similar thing but its just not available

i guess what you could say is that i want a portable hifi with source, amp and eq for the audiophile

if you recommend sflo or somesuch playing out through the headphones for using the eq , and plugging this into a portable amp and some quality cans then let me know as i am still leaning this way; or if you think i will be more than satisfied with hifiman ...

cheers for a wonderful site

I think if you are looking for EQ tweaking with a DAP, you should look for some popular players such as Cowon and Iriver.

Most Hifiman users are not keen on the EQ settings of the Hifiman, just as other good DAP.

Happy searching!

Forget Cowan or iRiver for SQ, they don't come close to the sflo2 or hifiman 801.

I was much the same as you when I was young, TDK SA-X tapes - I had a 3 band eq, but wished for more, its the headphones that need it.

I think its still true despite big leaps in portable headphones that you need some hgh quality eq to bring a DAP to life when out and about.

I have the Teclast T51, which is the Chinese branded sflo2.

The line out bypasses the phillips amp, but you can choose EQ for the line-out no problem.

Enabling the EQ, which is I think 7 band, each band can be wide or narrow and a little like a parametric, you can choose 7 bands to use from 21 frequencies.

The EQ will cut the volume down, so if you are driving more than 150 Ohms, you may hit the volume limit on the pot. The T51 can drive 300 Ohms no problem without the EQ. at 300 ohms there will a slight lack of warmth due to only just enough current available. HD650 can be loud but a little dry.

As wih many EQs, try to average 0 with all bands and the quality will be best.

I like a loudness type of setting and the T51 is simply the best for clarity, depth, lack of sibilence and strength than anything else I've owned.

Wait, that EQ was an earlier Teclast model, the T51 is I think a 9 band straight EQ, still miles better than anything other than a hifiman with super cans.

You can bypass one or both the headphone amp and the EQ, for sure.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PiSkyHiFi 

Enabling the EQ, which is I think 7 band, each band can be wide or narrow and a little like a parametric, you can choose 7 bands to use from 21 frequencies.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PiSkyHiFi 

Wait, that EQ was an earlier Teclast model, the T51 is I think a 9 band straight EQ, still miles better than anything other than a hifiman with super cans.

I don't really know if you are actually talking about the T51 / s:flo2 or not, because it only has a 5 band EQ (60Hz 300Hz 1kHz 3kHz 6kHz). Believe it or not, that is the same 5 band EQ on HifiMan, because both HifiMan and T51 / s:flo2 uses Rockchip as controller chip, and that is the standard EQ solution for most Rockchip controller.

Well, I tried to label it with some uncertainty because I want you to believe what I am certain about. I will check my new T51 as soon as it arrives, since mine died a horrible death recently.

The fact is, it is sufficient and it applies to the line-out as well, no uncertainty.

The term Rockchip does apply to the controller, but in no way do you say what type of Rockchip is being used and so the EQ could well be diffferent - in fact, other reports have said that the HiFiMan has no EQ, but I don't have one so I am uncertain.

The early HifiMan firmware did disable the EQ function, which is why some of the early review said it doesn't have EQ. In fact, it is just inaccessible because Fang doesn't think people need to use EQ with HifiMan (which I agree). But later he asked the firmware team to enable it due to request from some user.

The Rockchip EQ is very well known among Chinese DAP, which is why I know it well. The reason why EQ affects line-out is because the common solution in applying EQ is done in the controller chip digitally. So the music data is effectively EQ'ed before it is sent to the DAC, and that is why I know it is part of Rockchip solution. The funny thing is, many Rockchip controller are actually capable of 20 or 32 bands EQ in hardware, but Rockchip never develops a good enough firmware to take advantage of that (and it is well known that Rockchip's firmware team sucks). That is why companies that use Rockchip solution often get stuck in the bad controller chip firmware.

so how did it die????

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by PiSkyHiFi 

 

Well, I tried to label it with some uncertainty because I want you to believe what I am certain about. I will check my new T51 as soon as it arrives, since mine died a horrible death recently.

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJGeorgeT 

so how did it die????

 

Well, it was dropped a few times - the metallic outside is a little slippery - the third time I think cracked something on the main board, since it would suddenly have crackle and drop out and squeezing it fixed it for a while. I actually placed things inside to keep the thing under pressure continuously, but over a few weeks of doing this and the super-gluing the shell down into a heavily squeezed state, it gave up and so did I.

Really is my favourite DAP ever, so I am glad to see I can still pick 1 up off Ebay. I hadn't looked at the EQ settings for a long time because I would routinely swap between USER EQ and NORMAL depending on if I was out with the Blox TM5s or in with HD650s - I even contemplated using the PK1s plugged into the Lineout and using the EQ to reduce the volume - that actually gives a better sound than using the Phillips in-built amp IMO. but its annoying to change volume.

I found the Phillips amp warmed up a bit over time too.

If one can get a 5 volt supply with more than 1.2 Amps it seems to give it the longest life per charge - I use a powered hub to recharge.

I now have an iPhone belt clip that I will use for the next one and I will train myself not to drop it at all if possible.

So I got a chance to hear the new HM-801 amp card at the New York meet.  Fang is a very cool guy and extremely generous--I told him that my HM-801 charger had stopped working, and he just gave me one of his chargers on the spot, no questions asked.

The new amp card, according to Fang, is set to be released next month and it will be the new standard card that ships with all new HM-801s.  Fang will offer it basically at cost for all existing owners, which I think is a great way to treat your customers.  He also showed me an early prototype of the new balanced amp card, which will be released next year.  Headphones with TRSS connectors can plug directly into the amp in the back, with a new amp cover.

He asked me to listen to the new (standard) amp card with my JH16s, since he was already pretty sure they sounded good with full-size headphones.  I tried a mix of songs, everything from Chesky recordings (Chesky was at the meet!) to Lauryn Hill and Outkast (all FLAC, the Chesky and Outkast were 24-bit).  I didn't have as much time as I would have liked in order to give detailed impressions, but I have to say I was impressed.  The first thing that struck me was how full-bodied the sound was; the bass was very robust, maybe to the point of being a bit boomy and cloudy.  The treble was very distinct and maybe a bit too sharp, but it's hard for me to say with a short audition.  The midrange was quite lush and pleasant, and the sound felt very warm.

My main suggestion to Fang was that the gain is too high for custom IEMs.  I had a hard time getting the right volume for a quiet room without channel imbalance.  He said he would take this into account and may decrease the gain, since he wants this amp card to work well for all headphones and he knows many HM-801 owners have custom IEMs.  I did a quick comparison with my HM-801 with the GAME amp card, and I felt that the GAME card was slightly more refined, with more control over the bass.  However, the new amp card seemed to deliver a bigger soundstage and a more rich, warm sound.  In my opinion, neither the GAME card nor any of the other amp cards have low enough gain for custom IEMs in a quiet room.  Hopefully this is something that Fang will address.

Overall I think that, with a lower gain setting and maybe an adjustment to the bass, the amp card will offer a solid all-around solution for those of us with both custom IEMs and full-size headphones that don't want to switch between the GAME amp and the standard amp all the time.  It seemed to deliver a spacious soundstage, with the sense of air and fine detail that the HM-801 has become known for.  The card sounded a bit better when I took a quick listen with my full-size Edition 8 headphones, probably more controlled and the big bass sounded more natural with full-size headphones.  I think those of you that mostly listen with full-size cans will be very happy with the new amp card, it seems to improve on the standard card (although I wasn't able to compare those side-by-side).

Finally, Fang told me that he doesn't plan to release any more firmware updates for the HM-801.  Apparently, the hardware doesn't allow for gapless playback, and the gap between songs is pretty small in his view (it feels like about a second to me).  I'm ok with no new firmware, although I would like the ability to delete songs off of the SD card or onboard memory from the player, since adding and deleting songs is a time-consuming process via USB (I have to make notes for myself about which songs I don't like and want to delete later).  I suggest being able to delete songs by pressing the top right button twice while a song is playing; this would bring up a prompt asking us if we want to delete the song. 

Thank you, Fang, for listening to my feedback and for your hard work producing a wide range of excellent products.  Your generosity is also very much appreciated.  It was very cool of you to donate a prototype HE-5 to the auction and to help me with my charger problem!

Quote:

Originally Posted by dj nellie 

Finally, Fang told me that he doesn't plan to release any more firmware updates for the HM-801.  Apparently, the hardware doesn't allow for gapless playback, and the gap between songs is pretty small in his view (it feels like about a second to me).  I'm ok with no new firmware, although I would like the ability to delete songs off of the SD card or onboard memory from the player, since adding and deleting songs is a time-consuming process via USB (I have to make notes for myself about which songs I don't like and want to delete later).  I suggest being able to delete songs by pressing the top right button twice while a song is playing; this would bring up a prompt asking us if we want to delete the song. 

Well, thats pretty ridiculous. Gapless playback means that it plays back like on a CD, LP or Cassette. Anything else is not gapless and a second in this context is a huge discomforting break with most classical recordings as well a all the other conceptual albums..

Since gapless is more important to me than to be able to navigate single songs, my solution is to join the tracks which are supposed to be played gapless.

If I think about it, it would be even better not to enable software based gapless but enable software based navigation of single songs within a joined file. Must be easier to realize too...

You had to embed a cuesheet with the joined album file and software would be able to navigate the single songs in the file via this cuesheet.

You could navigate your music via the folder structure on the SD card as if the songs were not joined to one file.

That would be great.

(P.S. I get it wrong most of the time too, but the name of the company is philips and not phillips .)