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Hifiman 801 Appreciation thread - Page 9

post #121 of 351
12/18/09 at 6:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by electropop View Post
I'll have to compare it to some proper stand-alone DACs soon. At the latest when my HE5/EF5 combo arrives.
let me know how your HE5 & 801 pair up goes please

i m now looking over the fence for K701/K702,HE5,T1,HD650 and Ultrasone pro 900 ~~

didnt have the chance to test RE0 due to miss out in my 801 shipment ~ but i decide to keep TF10 since my previous problem is now solve with 801, no more headache listening to some songs. may be next year i will have chance to test with RE0
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Gear mentioned in this thread:

HiFiMAN HM-801
post #122 of 351
12/18/09 at 7:41am
I think "musicality" simply means the ability to play notes clearly. Of course it has to sound real, but pitch accuracy is more important to that factor than resolution and dynamics.
Saying that it's the "soul" is a bit vague, and people keep throwing that term around a bit too loosely, in my opinion, because it can for anyone mean different things. Usually people use it if they feel it sounds just as if they could forget any else technical mumbo jumbo and just forget themselves with the music. Different factors do this to different people. So, again it's vaguely used.
Very few people comment on the pitch accuracy. No matter how transparent, how dynamic, if I struggle to hear some notes in an otherwise soothing but complex piece, whether brass or bass, I get uneasy. There's a bit of that effect with the HM801+srh840, though the 840s really are ok in this sense.
Well, anyway, that is "musicality" the way I see it, and is more important than any other hifi factor to me.
I've spent many evenings on my relatively inexpensive Linn Majik 109 / Classik Music set and just enjoyed the music without the need to analyze anything, because the music and it's main, most important structure presents itself so clearly and effortlessly. Naturally.

I'll be trying the 801 as a DAC in that system when I've spent a little more time with it. I'm sure the Majik 109s are more revealing than any headphone I have or will have. The DAC of the Classik Music is quite good and I used quite a while on my headphone set as well, so there is going to be competition.
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post #123 of 351
12/18/09 at 7:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by testrichard View Post
let me know how your HE5 & 801 pair up goes please

i m now looking over the fence for K701/K702,HE5,T1,HD650 and Ultrasone pro 900 ~~

didnt have the chance to test RE0 due to miss out in my 801 shipment ~ but i decide to keep TF10 since my previous problem is now solve with 801, no more headache listening to some songs. may be next year i will have chance to test with RE0
I recall you mentioning that you're a bit of a bass head. I've only heard 701/702 and 650s out of those, but I detest the Edition 9s more than anything and can't think how the 900, known for their bass prowess, will sound any better.
The 702s when well amped play music very effortlessly. You can hear the bass, but it won't give you that club feeling you were talking about earlier
For progressive and Jazz they were very musical. Though distant, I could hear notes very good and the instrument separation was uncanny.
Unprovocative, but at the same time very engaging, if that makes any sense

What kind of music do you like listening to, richard?
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post #124 of 351
12/18/09 at 8:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zanth View Post
I am currently writing an in depth review for the Head-fi Quarterly. If people are so inclined as to want a synopsis before the first issue is released, I am willing to write something up.
That's great. I believe that your synopsis and impression about the player would most certainly provide many people on this forum with a much better understanding of the HM-801. Especially since the reviews for this player are very scarce.

I, personally, would most definitely appreciate your comments on the player upon owning it for some time.

@electropop: What's the file format of the songs you listen to? I'm certain that it could contribute to the lack of a kick to the songs you wanted.

At the worst, you could always buy another amp for the unit once Fang finishes it, or once someone else creates one.

I'm kind of interested to see if people can use a DAC that's on the market, and recreate it so it will work in the Guan Qi bay of the HiFiMan HM-801.
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post #125 of 351
12/18/09 at 6:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by electropop View Post
What kind of music do you like listening to, richard?
i like Chill out and instrument kind mostly ~ its relaxing and let me do my work and thinking.

but when i want club or RnB music i wana be blow away ~

i guess in that case, if TF10 provides enough details then i should aim solely on bass when buying can ~ after all full size can should be the only way to provide better bass than In ear?

probably Ultrasone 900 or T1 then,i m Priced out of HD800 (further,knowing u need to spend even more just to drive HD800 better,i will stick with my 801 + other can )

how about grado ?? what model you think fits 801 while not over spending and over kill?

by the way~ my 801 sounds better every day and seriously i dont think its illusion ? also it starts to get a bit warm now after long use
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post #126 of 351
12/18/09 at 9:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrahmaBull9813 View Post
That's great. I believe that your synopsis and impression about the player would most certainly provide many people on this forum with a much better understanding of the HM-801. Especially since the reviews for this player are very scarce.

I, personally, would most definitely appreciate your comments on the player upon owning it for some time.

@electropop: What's the file format of the songs you listen to? I'm certain that it could contribute to the lack of a kick to the songs you wanted.

At the worst, you could always buy another amp for the unit once Fang finishes it, or once someone else creates one.

I'm kind of interested to see if people can use a DAC that's on the market, and recreate it so it will work in the Guan Qi bay of the HiFiMan HM-801.
All flacs I'm using. It's not a lack of kick, really. Almost too much of it really

Listened to SRH840s vai line out to Voyager, and there indeed was little improvement in any way. If any. The on board amp is good enough.

It's funny how the Shures transformed from laid back, a bit bass heavy and loose phones to very fast and controlled, mid-centric ones.. Also, there seems to be more information from high frequencies: no treble roll-off to annoy me anymore.
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post #127 of 351
12/18/09 at 9:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by testrichard View Post
i like Chill out and instrument kind mostly ~ its relaxing and let me do my work and thinking.

but when i want club or RnB music i wana be blow away ~

i guess in that case, if TF10 provides enough details then i should aim solely on bass when buying can ~ after all full size can should be the only way to provide better bass than In ear?

probably Ultrasone 900 or T1 then,i m Priced out of HD800 (further,knowing u need to spend even more just to drive HD800 better,i will stick with my 801 + other can )

how about grado ?? what model you think fits 801 while not over spending and over kill?

by the way~ my 801 sounds better every day and seriously i dont think its illusion ? also it starts to get a bit warm now after long use
I think I'm imagining the HM801 to burn in as well ... Might really be my ears or my phones burning in even more.

I don't know what you mean by "good bass" and I haven't listened to many IEMs to make a statement unfortunately.

I have Grado 325i's.. I'll try them out later to let you know. They can be fun phones, but I like my AD2000s and 840s much more.

I think Edition 9 would blow you away. That's actually the fact why I hated the phones more than ibuds. It literally felt my ears were being stuffed with hairballs. Eugh
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post #128 of 351
12/19/09 at 6:12am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Booda View Post
It is really a regret that untill today, There are no any full detail review on HIFIMAN 801. The users seems have no interesting to do it. if there is a comparing between HIFIMAN, T51, SONY X and AMP3 in term of sound quality, it will be appreciated.
Hifiman 801 sounds better than the Amp3 Pro V2. I tried the Amp3 Pro V2 before. Would love to compare with the D50 but have no chance so far.
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post #129 of 351
12/19/09 at 6:16am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by testrichard View Post
i can understand why~ i have hifiman 801 with me and i m just enjoying music~ no more chasing of amp/dac etc etc ~ back to the basic , enjoying the music

i dont bother what other player does now, i know my 801 has dark back ground. no hiss etc during playing or silent moment during song~ and extremely tiny tiny hiss when turn the volume to the max with pause~

and able to enjoy songs that usually will give me headache on other players due to the background noise etc !! even turning max still just feeling loud and not noisy with headache...... ( i have very sensitive ear)

would you still bother comparing if you r in our position ? or you will just enjoy music until may be one day you found that noise in your head again ?
I can understand that, we're too busy listening to music.
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post #130 of 351
12/19/09 at 6:24am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by electropop View Post
I don't have much reference, but I have to take back my words now that I've listened to this unit a few hours longer that it is even "musically" better than my iPod Classic 160gb. Only used my SRH840s with it so far and I'm surprised that using the line out to my Voyager doesn't shake things up one bit. Marginal differences, mainly in "smoothness"..
I could hear a new instrument on Frank Zappa's piece 'Revised Music for Guitar and Low Budget Orchestra' from the album 'Studio Tan' at the part where Chester whips out a groove and all of the orchestra plays the same patterns in unison. I could hear a guitar amongst the complex brass arrangement.. Notes were rather clear but not as clear as on my Linn stereo system. You still had to fish out some, but that might also be due to the Shures.
I'll have to compare it to some proper stand-alone DACs soon. At the latest when my HE5/EF5 combo arrives.
Glad to hear that you like it. What amp you using? Lisa will give you a bliss I believe--it surely give me mine.
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post #131 of 351
12/19/09 at 7:26am
I don't think so. I don't like much coloration and the Shures are now just the way I like them. Very fast with only a bit more energy from mids to treble (compared to my old combo), that got a moment to get used to. It's great that there's absolutely no flesh around the instruments you hear in the low frequencies. Bass-drums are fast and impactful; sort of realistic even, and even from 60s/70s recordings. And the bass guitar is a completely different entity. It was nice to hear that even in the 60s they could record so well..
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post #132 of 351
12/19/09 at 7:50am
Thread Starter 

I think HiFiMan 801 is the best current DAP--today is 19 Dec 2009.

Haven't read this thread for quite a while, I'm surprised of the growth of this thread. Please focus on the features, quality and usability of this little gem rather than hijacking this thread.

There have been quite a few impressions of the 801 scattering in different threads. I have put the links in this thread to consolidate the impressions--see the first post. Also whenever I saw new impressions of the 801 then, I pm the author asking if I might quote or copy his/her own impressions here. Some agreed and some rejected saying that "the thread is horrible, let it die" right after the hot debate of two of our head-fiers. Please do not let this type of reactions occur again.

For other head-fiers who wants a true comparison, I urge you to do one. It'll be both rewarding and educational. Bear it mind that the 801 is not cheap and so as the D50. Not many head-fiers will have the chance to compare it with other similar products simply because not many of us will own many sources--especially expensive ones.

Now I'll share what I find for the 801.

After having the Hifiman 801 for a month, burning in for more than 300 hours, listening to it on its own or lineout to other amps literally daily and for more than 3 hours per day on average, I conclude that this is the best portable DAP now.

Noted: I treat it as a DAP. My focus is SQ first, built quality 2nd, battery life and storage 3rd, interface 4th, and portability 5th . I've compared it with Amp3 Pro V2 and the Korg MR-1 and reached the conclusion. ES3X was used for the comparison.

I tried the Amp3 Pro V2 before and it hissed too much with the ES3X. I tried the Korg MR-1 and it still hissed too much with the ES3X. So SQ wise they are not in the same league.

In terms of build quality, the buttons of the 801 is pretty responsive and feel sturdy. I couldn't say I feel it that way for the Amp3 Pro V2. The MR-1 was purchased a fortnight ago by my friend and lying on the desk when playing rather than using as a mobile device. Yesterday morning the disk of the MR-1 was out of order. In this regard, I am confident to say that the build quality of the 801 is at least on the par with the rest.

The battery life of the MR-1 is the worst. The 801 can last for 7 hours for sure and I did get it running one day for more than 9 hours--use lineout only. Not sure of that for the Amp3 ProV2 but 7 hours per day is good enough for me. I charge it everyday and so far it works.

Storage:
The SD card of the 801 can be swapped on the fly. The MR-1 cannot. Not sure for the Amp3 Pro V2 but I think it can swap the micro-SD on the fly. This renders the 801 one of the best among the three devices.

The max storage of the 801 is 32GB (SD card) + 2GB (on board flash) which is roughly 68GB wave files ripped in FLAC, about 100 red book CDs. To me that's enough. Another 32GB SD card will get you another 100 red book CDs.

The size of the MR-1 is only 20GB. If use the best format offered by the MR-1 (the WSD) you simply can't get more than 6 albums. I could not sense the edge of the MR-1 over the 801 when playing wave. Hence it doesn't make sense to compare the music storage in terms of GB only. Also the MR-1 cannot support FLACs.

Again, this renders the 801 one of the best.

For the interfaces:
I know little for the Amp3 Pro V2 because I totally lost the interest of buying it right after hearing her voice--it could just be that machine that I was using. Anyway the screen is too small for me. The quality of the LCD of the 801 is excellent as witnessed by lots of the owners.

The interface of all of them are not as intuitive as the IPod. But I would say using an interface is just a habit. The first time that I bought an IPod 4G, I don't know how to handle the click wheel to shut down the machine.

The interface of the 801 is not difficult to learn at all. I manage to self-learn how to use it without a manual (It doesn't come with a manual). I couldn't do it with the MR-1 and did refer to the menu though it only took me less than 5 minutes for the reading. The buttons of the Amp3 Pro V2 were a bit stiff and the shopkeeper showed me how to play music and adjust the volume.

All in all, in terms of interface, the 801 should be at least on the par with the rest.


In terms of portability, the Amp3 Pro V2 is the best. Hands down. Given the poor battery life of the MR-1, I would definitely rank the 801 the 2nd even though the size of the 801 is bigger. To me, when the size is down to a certain amount, portability is no longer such a big issue. No doubt IPod shuffle is more portable than IPod Nano which is more portable than the IPod Mini and which is again more portable than an IPod. I would still think that the portability of the IPod is good enough. Similarly I think the 801 is portable enough though I won't mind it coming smaller.

Weighting all the factors, I reach the conclusion as stated in the title of this post.

PS. I head a T51 briefly and wasn't impressed. Would love to compare the 801 with the D50 but I'm not going to buy the D50 for that. Any head-fiers?
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post #133 of 351
12/19/09 at 8:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenLeo View Post
Haven't read this thread for quite a while, I'm surprised of the growth of this thread. Please focus on the features, quality and usability of this little gem rather than hijacking this thread.

There have been quite a few impressions of the 801 scattering in different threads. I have put the links in this thread to consolidate the impressions--see the first post. Also whenever I saw new impressions of the 801 then, I pm the author asking if I might quote or copy his/her own impressions here. Some agreed and some rejected saying that "the thread is horrible, let it die" right after the hot debate of two of our head-fiers. Please do not let this type of reactions occur again.

For other head-fiers who wants a true comparison, I urge you to do one. It'll be both rewarding and educational. Bear it mind that the 801 is not cheap and so as the D50. Not many head-fiers will have the chance to compare it with other similar products simply because not many of us will own many sources--especially expensive ones.

Now I'll share what I find for the 801.

After having the Hifiman 801 for a month, burning in for more than 300 hours, listening to it on its own or lineout to other amps literally daily and for more than 3 hours per day on average, I conclude that this is the best portable DAP now.

Noted: I treat it as a DAP. My focus is SQ first, built quality 2nd, battery life and storage 3rd, interface 4th, and portability 5th . I've compared it with Amp3 Pro V2 and the Korg MR-1 and reached the conclusion. ES3X was used for the comparison.

I tried the Amp3 Pro V2 before and it hissed too much with the ES3X. I tried the Korg MR-1 and it still hissed too much with the ES3X. So SQ wise they are not in the same league.

In terms of build quality, the buttons of the 801 is pretty responsive and feel sturdy. I couldn't say I feel it that way for the Amp3 Pro V2. The MR-1 was purchased a fortnight ago by my friend and lying on the desk when playing rather than using as a mobile device. Yesterday morning the disk of the MR-1 was out of order. In this regard, I am confident to say that the build quality of the 801 is at least on the par with the rest.

The battery life of the MR-1 is the worst. The 801 can last for 7 hours for sure and I did get it running one day for more than 9 hours--use lineout only. Not sure of that for the Amp3 ProV2 but 7 hours per day is good enough for me. I charge it everyday and so far it works.

Storage:
The SD card of the 801 can be swapped on the fly. The MR-1 cannot. Not sure for the Amp3 Pro V2 but I think it can swap the micro-SD on the fly. This renders the 801 one of the best among the three devices.

The max storage of the 801 is 32GB (SD card) + 2GB (on board flash) which is roughly 68GB wave files ripped in FLAC, about 100 red book CDs. To me that's enough. Another 32GB SD card will get you another 100 red book CDs.

The size of the MR-1 is only 20GB. If use the best format offered by the MR-1 (the WSD) you simply can't get more than 6 albums. I could not sense the edge of the MR-1 over the 801 when playing wave. Hence it doesn't make sense to compare the music storage in terms of GB only. Also the MR-1 cannot support FLACs.

Again, this renders the 801 one of the best.

For the interfaces:
I know little for the Amp3 Pro V2 because I totally lost the interest of buying it right after hearing her voice--it could just be that machine that I was using. Anyway the screen is too small for me. The quality of the LCD of the 801 is excellent as witnessed by lots of the owners.

The interface of all of them are not as intuitive as the IPod. But I would say using an interface is just a habit. The first time that I bought an IPod 4G, I don't know how to handle the click wheel to shut down the machine.

The interface of the 801 is not difficult to learn at all. I manage to self-learn how to use it without a manual (It doesn't come with a manual). I couldn't do it with the MR-1 and did refer to the menu though it only took me less than 5 minutes for the reading. The buttons of the Amp3 Pro V2 were a bit stiff and the shopkeeper showed me how to play music and adjust the volume.

All in all, in terms of interface, the 801 should be at least on the par with the rest.


In terms of portability, the Amp3 Pro V2 is the best. Hands down. Given the poor battery life of the MR-1, I would definitely rank the 801 the 2nd even though the size of the 801 is bigger. To me, when the size is down to a certain amount, portability is no longer such a big issue. No doubt IPod shuffle is more portable than IPod Nano which is more portable than the IPod Mini and which is again more portable than an IPod. I would still think that the portability of the IPod is good enough. Similarly I think the 801 is portable enough though I won't mind it coming smaller.

Weighting all the factors, I reach the conclusion as stated in the title of this post.

PS. I head a T51 briefly and wasn't impressed. Would love to compare the 801 with the D50 but I'm not going to buy the D50 for that. Any head-fiers?
Is this a serious comparing review or personal imagine? Sir, where did you got the AMP3 pro V2 for camparing?????? There is no such a model!!!!

The batter life is easy to test, why no AMP3 battery performance report? in fact,the battery life of AMP3 is 100 hours per charge.

You can personally don't like AMP3, it is no problem. But as a serious camparing, you have to learn some thing of AMP3. For your judgment is the reference for the all headfiers.

There is no one can remember the sound quality in the world. Any serious audio devices camparing must be bassed on serious A/B comparing sessions. This is common sense.

If you don't like to compare HIFIMAN 801 with AMP3, T51,Sony X, D50, Iriver H 140 , Cowon D2 and others, You can only make such a conclusion: among the HIFIMAM and MR-1 , I think HiFiMan 801 is the best current DAP--today is 19 Dec 2009.

If some player is really the best in the market, it is no neccessary to make such a subjective judgement. There is no "best", to audio devices, there is only one standard, like or dislike.

If it must have a ranking among the DAPs in 2009, the top one is SANSA CLIP which priced at around $ 40 not Hifiman 801. please refer to the " Anythingbutipod" website.

If it must grap a "best" tile for hifiman, the definite one is the most expensive DAP in the market. We really like to read more unbiased players reviewing to learn more informations on the DAPs. I do hope Hifiman is really the "best" with every aspects, especially the musicality segments.
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post #134 of 351
12/19/09 at 9:52am
Thread Starter 
The title is "I think ..." which is already stating that the conclusion is subjective.

Everybody has the right to object other's opinion and that's fair. It's not uncommon to find headfiers have contradicting conclusions and I've never imagined that my impressions will be the reference of all headfiers. Not many headfiers can be that important and I don't think any headfiers should be that important anyway.

Why not to do a comparison yourself and post it?
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post #135 of 351
12/19/09 at 11:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenLeo View Post
The title is "I think ..." which is already stating that the conclusion is subjective.

Everybody has the right to object other's opinion and that's fair. It's not uncommon to find headfiers have contradicting conclusions and I've never imagined that my impressions will be the reference of all headfiers. Not many headfiers can be that important and I don't think any headfiers should be that important anyway.

Why not to do a comparison yourself and post it?
Yes, I have done the comparation between these players by myself days ago, and have taken the pictures of them. I am sure I have my conclusion and have writen the review. But I don't want to post it now. Because I thought Hifiman is a good player to some listeners if there is no comparation with other decent DAPs.

As the previous post stated that I do hope Hifiman will be the best DAP in the market. This is my attitude to a player. if it is really perfect, it don't need me to have my additional praises, if it is just so so, it is also don't need me to criticize. For I am not the only one have tested Hifiman. I aways have good wishs to any players especially the maker has try their best on it. The harsh picky words or comments to a new player will do nothing to improve the product. if there are shortcomings, I would like to keep quiet. I would like to think the maker really want to make it better.

Any way, I really respect the creative concept of DAP/DAC/AMP hybride of HIFIMAN. This contribution to the DAPs industry is enough to trade off many disadvantages. This is the reasons why I don't want to publish my review. I suppose,this is also the reason that why there is still no detail reviews of HIFIMAN by other owners.

To be frankly, I will reserve my conclusions on judeging the comparation between the 3 players of HIFIMAN, MR-1 and AMP3. which is really very different from your subjective conclusion.--------Maybe the third party will be fair to release the really answer.
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HiFiMAN HM-801
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