Since we are talking Supercars and all, I thought I'd share one of my favorite car commercials:
 

i think there is a point where something is too much for the public roads lol. still darn cool.

Well yeah, the Zonda R isn't street legal anyway. But it's still the one I'd have if I could have any modern super car. Of course my favorites are still the Ferrari race cars of old. Their newest offerings are great cars, but there's nothing quite like the sound and smell of an old 250. If only I had the multi-millions to own one...

my bad. i did not know it was not street legal. that thing is a beast! honestly i get a car because i think it looks cool. i drive below the speed limit and make it to the track like twice a year. even at the track i won't go nuts because i don't really want to wreck a car. that being said, that zonda looks super cool! if you want a vintage car how about a bugatti lol. the veyron is a volkswagen of all things. i see what you mean about the new offerings from the big marques.....

Hey, you assumed it wasn't street legal so you may know more than you realize. And yeah, I don't understand why people think regularly speeding is fine. Just take it to the track, seriously. Don't get me wrong, most of the high-end modern offerings are great cars. I'd love to one day drive a 458. I just love the nostalgia that comes from old race cars. It was such a different era back then, no seat beats, no over-computerized cars. It was just you and the car that was almost alive in itself. If only the old ones with racing pedigrees weren't so obscenely expensive. As for the Veyron, I'm not really a big fan. I certainly respect and admire the engineering that went into the car and some of the absolute bonkers numbers. Just if I was in the market for a 240+ mph hyper car, it'd be the McLaren F1 every single time.

the f1 was a supercar. three seats too! also about two million smackers now lol. i can think of a lot of older supercars that i like better than the new ones too. (unfortunately) they have all appreciated.
i always laugh when accountant types say cars only depreciate. i once saw a guy buy a 959 as an investment. i wonder how long he kept it or if he still has it. pretty good investment there.

Funny, I was just having a chat w/ another H-fier about technological advancement versus performance.  He wasn't quite getting my point.  Should have shown him this.
 
http://wheelstv.tv/wheelstvgarage/videos/id_207/title_Top-Gear-Supercars-Old-vs-New/
 
 

 
Quote:

music_man said:

the f1 was a supercar. three seats too! also about two million smackers now lol. i can think of a lot of older supercars that i like better than the new ones too. (unfortunately) they have all appreciated.
i always laugh when accountant types say cars only depreciate. i once saw a guy buy a 959 as an investment. i wonder how long he kept it or if he still has it. pretty good investment there.

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OK, I'm one of those accountant types.
 
First, cars violate one of my Iron Rules: Do not pay interest on a depreciating asset.
 
It's best to pay cash.  At the worst, buy with a large down and pay it off ASAP.  I did that with my daily ride; the other car has been paid off for over 20 years.
 
Some cars do appreciate, but you have to figure in maintenance, registration and insurance.  I'm not sure the Porsche made money when you factor the TCO.
 
The best way to go is to buy a super-reliable car and drive the wheels off it.  My tC was $15k and is about to turn 90k with zero problems.  I think I can push it to 250k without much expense.  Even though it depreciates, the TCO won't be too bad.
 
I'm also thinking about a fun car.  Some I'm considering are a C5 convertible with a manual, a '55-'57 T-Bird in "driver" condition, a NSX, or an Avanti II.  A C5 or NSX would be fully depreciated and are candidates to appreciate.  They also have a big enthusiast base and lots of DIY maintenance is possible.  The T-Birds and Avantis are more typical classics.  I lean a little towards an Avanti because they're $10k-$15k, you can get parts at Pep Boys and they're really distinctive.  Then again, a C5 is in the ballpark, has no top and  turns in decent mileage.  We'll see.
 
I wouldn't really expect to make money on any of these.  But I think I'd lose less money on them than with most cars.
 

What do you guys think about the Toyota GT 86 (and by extension, the Subaru BRZ) ? I don't know what to make of it; should we be expecting some kind of MR2 next or will this be the only car of its type for Toyota?

Here's a link for those who don't know: http://jalopnik.com/toyota-gt-86

Quote:

planar_head said:

What do you guys think about the Toyota GT 86 (and by extension, the Subaru BRZ) ? I don't know what to make of it; should we be expecting some kind of MR2 next or will this be the only car of its type for Toyota?
Here's a link for those who don't know: http://jalopnik.com/toyota-gt-86

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MR2 and Supra ARE next.  Question is when and in what form.  The 86 ended up being 2-300lbs and 2-$3,000K over my preferred targets for that project but it is tempting.  With few alternatives the 86 seems to be the real deal as far as current alternatives for a drivers car.  The look of the Toyota version is growing on me but the taillights need a redo IMO.  Edmunds already pegged it as one of the better handling cars they've tested and that's with crap tires.  As with all cars I'll wait for the last model year to make a decision and Toyota/Subaru has made it known they expect the vehicle to make 300+hp at some point.  Since I already have a MR and FR Jag I'd be interested if Toyota could make the 86 into an AWD performance hybrid getting 35-40mpg combined.  Such a car would weigh just a hair over a Corvette. 
 
Or I'll just save up and grab a CX16 in production form.  Choices....
 
 or 
 

 
Quote:

uncle erik said:

 

OK, I'm one of those accountant types.
 
First, cars violate one of my Iron Rules: Do not pay interest on a depreciating asset.
 
It's best to pay cash.  At the worst, buy with a large down and pay it off ASAP.  I did that with my daily ride; the other car has been paid off for over 20 years.
 
Some cars do appreciate, but you have to figure in maintenance, registration and insurance.  I'm not sure the Porsche made money when you factor the TCO.
 
The best way to go is to buy a super-reliable car and drive the wheels off it.  My tC was $15k and is about to turn 90k with zero problems.  I think I can push it to 250k without much expense.  Even though it depreciates, the TCO won't be too bad.
 
I'm also thinking about a fun car.  Some I'm considering are a C5 convertible with a manual, a '55-'57 T-Bird in "driver" condition, a NSX, or an Avanti II.  A C5 or NSX would be fully depreciated and are candidates to appreciate.  They also have a big enthusiast base and lots of DIY maintenance is possible.  The T-Birds and Avantis are more typical classics.  I lean a little towards an Avanti because they're $10k-$15k, you can get parts at Pep Boys and they're really distinctive.  Then again, a C5 is in the ballpark, has no top and  turns in decent mileage.  We'll see.
 
I wouldn't really expect to make money on any of these.  But I think I'd lose less money on them than with most cars.
 

Click to expand...

I mentioned the Ferrari 250 GTO earlier. I think this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9ml9Ucw2MU) shows the amazing appreciation value some of these old cars have assuming you bought it many years ago when their value had yet to be fully recognized.
 
Of course like one of the top commenter's on the video says, a $20 million car is a great investment now, if you have the money to buy such a car in the first place.

uncle erik said:

 


OK, I'm one of those accountant types.

First, cars violate one of my Iron Rules: Do not pay interest on a depreciating asset.

It's best to pay cash.  At the worst, buy with a large down and pay it off ASAP.  I did that with my daily ride; the other car has been paid off for over 20 years.

Some cars do appreciate, but you have to figure in maintenance, registration and insurance.  I'm not sure the Porsche made money when you factor the TCO.

The best way to go is to buy a super-reliable car and drive the wheels off it.  My tC was $15k and is about to turn 90k with zero problems.  I think I can push it to 250k without much expense.  Even though it depreciates, the TCO won't be too bad.

I'm also thinking about a fun car.  Some I'm considering are a C5 convertible with a manual, a '55-'57 T-Bird in "driver" condition, a NSX, or an Avanti II.  A C5 or NSX would be fully depreciated and are candidates to appreciate.  They also have a big enthusiast base and lots of DIY maintenance is possible.  The T-Birds and Avantis are more typical classics.  I lean a little towards an Avanti because they're $10k-$15k, you can get parts at Pep Boys and they're really distinctive.  Then again, a C5 is in the ballpark, has no top and  turns in decent mileage.  We'll see.

I wouldn't really expect to make money on any of these.  But I think I'd lose less money on them than with most cars.

Click to expand...

a c5 wont appreciate in the forseeable future. too many made. it will keep going down and down. nsx is a good choice as those are fully depreciate and highly sought after. you are right to factor in maintenance. thats why i dont recommend fiat era ferraris, even though many are done depreciating. most are a study in deferred maintenance... it will either cost you a lot to get it right when you buy, or cost you when you sell to the next guy who can use the fact you never changed the cambelts to haggle...

I know a C5 won't appreciate for another 10-15 years, but it will probably drop another $5k-$7k before rebounding.  I've always been a buy-and-hold sort, so picking one up would mean ten years of ownership.  It might not have the best performance stats, but it is topless and would be pretty good for touring and roaming back roads.  That might be worth losing a few thousand.  I'll be teaching shortly  and with a good 8-10 weeks off in the summer, a convertible would be nice to roam the lower 48 in.  Especially one with a good national network of parts and mechanics.

if you drive it that much it will never appreciate. it is not so expensive. as you said, drive it until the wheels fall off and enjoy it. sometimes the "investment" is the pleasure you get from something. not necessarily monetary. it is a good fun car. not a zr1 but id take a c5. you could put a supercharger on it if you need to go faster.

some cars actually are investments. that is why those $20,000 cars are 20 million now. what do you call that? other than gates, i think people made money on the 959 too. the '93 was less than $1m dm and no now it is $2.5m dm.

The only cars that truly appreciate are cars that require substantial initial capital outlay.  If you have that much money to begin with, no way would you get a vehicle as an investment in the first place, only as a luxury good.  .  Unless you are running a business where you rely on volume or restoration, the net loss in opportunity cost is too great to consider vehicles seriously as an 'investment'.  More like, 'if I'm lucky I'll make a few K flipping an exotic w/ a 2 year waitlist'.  Any potential collector car with 'reasonable' points of entry are cars that will likely only make you rich by the time you are either dead or in a retirement home.
 
'93 was 20 years ago and don't forget inflation.  Who the hell uses dm these days btw?